02-03-2004 06:54									#1
	Why are we so illiterate about Art? Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yes, this is the only conclusion I can come to.

There are plenty of intelligent persons on Apolyton, who can debate politics, history, economics, science and philosophy in a competent way.

Why is it that everyone is so illiterate when it comes to Art? The trend is generalized: only a fraction of usually intelligent people have something intelligent to say about Art. Could it be that art is not considered seriously? Why is it that an intelligent person would accept that art is here to manipulate emotions, and that's it?

Discuss.

	02-03-2004 06:55									#2
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Because art is homo-gay?

	02-03-2004 06:56									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Because art is homo-gay?

	02-03-2004 06:57									#4
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Art cannot be measured.

	02-03-2004 06:58									#5
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Does the "we" include yourself, or are you, Boris, the only guy at Poly who's not illiterate in this matter?

	02-03-2004 07:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Art cannot be measured.

Well, the point of 'measuring' art (in a metaphoric sense) is to put aside your personal preferences when judging it.

	02-03-2004 07:00									#7
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I'm art literate.

	02-03-2004 07:00									#8
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Because the art I like is not the modern-throw-some-paint-at-canvas art.

I doubt anyone wants to talk about, say, Thomas Kinkade, since he's probably not considered avant garde by the psuedo-intellectuals.

	02-03-2004 07:02									#9
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Does the "we" include yourself, or are you, Boris, the only guy at Poly who's not illiterate in this matter?

I don't know if it includes myself.

Illiterate was not the exact word, I fear. It has more to do with the (wrong IMO) conception that art is purely subjective, that if you like it then it's fine, etc.

I had thought Brecht would have put the last nail on the coffin of this dumb idea.

	02-03-2004 07:04									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Because the art I like is not the modern-throw-some-paint-at-canvas art. I doubt anyone wants to talk about, say, Thomas Kinkade, since he's probably not considered avant garde by the psuedo-intellectuals.

This is a problem, too. There is nothing wrong with traditional stuff. However, by definition, art has to be in some part avant-garde. When it ceases to be, it becomes a social construct at the hand of the ruling elite.

(Though some would argue that even the avant garde is a social construct used by the elite, which is another debate).

	02-03-2004 07:06									#11
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That's a good painting, but your snotty attitude actually makes me want to like it less.

	02-03-2004 07:08									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Because the art I like is not the modern-throw-some-paint-at-canvas art. I doubt anyone wants to talk about, say, Thomas Kinkade, since he's probably not considered avant garde by the psuedo-intellectuals. [img]

Verto! Are you sure you're not really my grandmother? The similarity in taste is uncanny.

jon.

	02-03-2004 07:09									#13
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That's because people who insist they know art have crap taste. It's a no-win situation.

	02-03-2004 07:10									#14
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quote: Originally posted by joncha Verto! Are you sure you're not really my grandmother? The similarity in taste is uncanny. jon.

	02-03-2004 07:11									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Because the art I like is not the modern-throw-some-paint-at-canvas art. I doubt anyone wants to talk about, say, Thomas Kinkade, since he's probably not considered avant garde by the psuedo-intellectuals.

We have several Thomas Kinkade paintings, and they really are nice.

	02-03-2004 07:11									#16
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quote: There is nothing wrong with traditional stuff. However, by definition, art has to be in some part avant-garde. When it ceases to be, it becomes a social construct at the hand of the ruling elite.

This is a problem. That art which is 'hand of the elite' is automatically bad. Bah!

	02-03-2004 07:12									#17
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 That's a good painting, but your snotty attitude actually makes me want to like it less.

Are you talking to me?

	02-03-2004 07:12									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That's because people who insist they know art have crap taste. It's a no-win situation.

I had once this cinema class where the teacher showed us a very long and drawn movie, with no real beginning and ending, no climax, no resolution of conflict, etc.

Of course, most of the class complained. Then he made a speech as to how Art was like a refined roquefort: you have to practice your taste in order to enjoy it. I agree.

	02-03-2004 07:14									#19
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The bronze cast you see in the foreground is a sculpture of a person's head. I had to write a paper on it and a painting in this exhibit. It was one of the more interesting assignments I've had.

	02-03-2004 07:14									#20
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You mean, force yourself to believe something is good, because others do?

	02-03-2004 07:15									#21
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quote: Originally posted by joncha Verto! Are you sure you're not really my grandmother? The similarity in taste is uncanny. jon.

I hope not.

	02-03-2004 07:16									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui This is a problem. That art which is 'hand of the elite' is automatically bad. Bah!

You agree or not? Well, since you are you and I am me, I don't expect much.

The reason why 'ruling class' art is bad is quite obvious. It is 'mythologic' in nature, in that it uses language (a moving media) to fix history (stagnate it) in a balanced, pleasing representation, destined to manipulate the masses.

	02-03-2004 07:18									#23
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quote: The reason why 'ruling class' art is bad is quite obvious. It is 'mythologic' in nature, in that it uses language (a moving media) to fix history (stagnate it) in a balanced, pleasing representation, destined to manipulate the masses.

And this is bad 'art' because...?

The Sistine Chapel was commissioned by the elites, that doesn't mean it isn't amazing.

	02-03-2004 07:20									#24
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"I had once this cinema class where the teacher showed us a very long and drawn movie, with no real beginning and ending, no climax, no resolution of conflict, etc."

L'Aventurra?

"That's because people who insist they know art have crap taste. It's a no-win situation."

You have no right to talk, mister. We've all seen your desktop background!

	02-03-2004 07:21									#25
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I figured that since I jumped all over Verto, it's only fair game that I post some of my "art."

This is the current wallpaper on my desktop. I likes it.

Attachment: lissitsky_wedge.jpg
This has been downloaded 75 time(s).

	02-03-2004 07:23									#26
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I like Verto's art .

	02-03-2004 07:23									#27
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Must...avert...eyes...

	02-03-2004 07:24									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris (...)destined to manipulate the masses.

Isn't in a certain sense any form of art manipulating? Not that I think art is generally brainwashing, but it appeals to our senses.....

	02-03-2004 07:25									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The reason why 'ruling class' art is bad is quite obvious. It is 'mythologic' in nature, in that it uses language (a moving media) to fix history (stagnate it) in a balanced, pleasing representation, destined to manipulate the masses. And this is bad 'art' because...? The Sistine Chapel was commissioned by the elites, that doesn't mean it isn't amazing.

Yes. When talking about art, we need to make a distinction between anything prior to the 19th century and the rest.

We also need to make the distinction between technical prowess (inherent to painting, sculpture) with the rest.

Finally, you have to keep in mind that it was only with the appearance of cartoons and cinema that art was destined directly for the masses. Understanding the Sistine chapel requires erudition, that was highly unlikely held by the masses of the Italian Renaissance.

	02-03-2004 07:28									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Finally, you have to keep in mind that it was only with the appearance of cartoons and cinema that art was destined directly for the masses.

Not true.