03-03-2004 07:23									#1
	Renewed Call for Unification of Drones and Hive Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The Subject Line says it all.

Mead

	03-03-2004 08:26									#2
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Worship your god first.

	03-03-2004 09:12									#3
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We have to announce it after we publically announce vendatta against the CPU. We should prepared some kind of a public announcement though. Would you be able to do it Comrade Mead?

	03-03-2004 18:23									#4
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Renewed NO to Hive-Drone union.

-Jam

	03-03-2004 19:36									#5
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Let me repeat, the Hive-Drones union is different from the CPU merge. We and the Drones have both agreed that when the Uni war is made public we will start to allow member access to each other's forum. The two factions will stay as independent but closely coorperative as before. Nothing really changes much other than now people can have access to both teams' forums if they want.

	03-03-2004 20:35									#6
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This reminded me another question. Do we want to let the PEACE member enter our forum or not? Do we want to poll on this?

	03-03-2004 21:31									#7
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I am unopposed and in fact support the further strengthening of relations with the Drones given that they are our true pactbrothers and pactsisters. As for PEACE, we should wait for the input of the Drones after our merger. And we need to poll this as well. We cannot give PEACE free and open access if they would not be submissive to the will of the new supranational entity which we would be creating with the Drones.

On another note, I think if we do move closer to the Drones we should create a joint rotating presidency, akin to the Presidency of the EU, where each month it would rotate between ourselves, the Drones, and maybe PEACE if they join.

	04-03-2004 05:33									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire I am unopposed and in fact support the further strengthening of relations with the Drones given that they are our true pactbrothers and pactsisters. As for PEACE, we should wait for the input of the Drones after our merger. And we need to poll this as well. We cannot give PEACE free and open access if they would not be submissive to the will of the new supranational entity which we would be creating with the Drones.

I agree we cannot grant free and open access to the Peace without consulting with the Drones first.

Right now, I don't think we should grant Peace access.

quote: On another note, I think if we do move closer to the Drones we should create a joint rotating presidency, akin to the Presidency of the EU, where each month it would rotate between ourselves, the Drones, and maybe PEACE if they join.

I don't mind that. However, just like now, the president (or CEO, Chairman, dude or dudette in charge, whatever), should be required to submit and follow the will of the people (all the people).

Will our access to their forum include access to their saves, and vice versa?

Mead

	04-03-2004 05:43									#9
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu We have to announce it after we publically announce vendatta against the CPU. We should prepared some kind of a public announcement though. Would you be able to do it Comrade Mead?

I would be happy to do so.

What is the extent of our merger?

Will we have access to their forums?
(and vice versa?)
Will we have access to their saves?
(and vice versa?)

Am I authorized to discuss this in the Drone embassy?

I understand that Comrade Jamski opposes this and I of course value and respect his opinion.

Please also understand Comrades Voltaire, Hong Hu, T-Ras and I support the unification of the Hive and Drones.

I would like everyone else in the Hive to have a chance to voice their opinion.


People, please speak up.


Mead

	04-03-2004 07:23									#10
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I would rather not have a unification of the Drone's and the Hive. While opening up our forums might be considered an act of good faith, I would rather us have our own private forum to speak as Hive citizens without having Drone's see what we are saying.

Despite our honest intentions with the Drones, I like our open dialogue that we are having now. For privacy's sake, I would rather us continue what we are doing and keep Hive forums for Hive members only.....that and the Gods, of course.

	04-03-2004 09:44									#11
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I was thinking along the simple line that if somebody wish they could be granted access to the other team. I'm not thinking anything like the CPU, you know, the "grand unification" that may requires a rotating presidency or something like that.

I think somebody may need to set up a poll on this.

	04-03-2004 14:36									#12
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SMAC/SMAX allows for communal victories without having to unify factions... if we have a brotherhood pact with the Drones and we formally agree with them to share victory, couldn't that be enough?

	05-03-2004 00:26									#13
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Yes I believe that could be enough. The only reason I see in allowing access into each other's forum is to keep information flow more smoothly. It is not to interfere with each other's policy and conduct. Another reason people may be thinking is to prevent the Drones from backstabbing us. However I do not see that is a real threat. In other words I trust the Drones.

	05-03-2004 01:59									#14
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I'd like to see us stay separate for the previous reasons of privacy. We have our forum and they have theirs. However, I could see us having a "Drone/Hive" Forum and us sharing a government there.

	05-03-2004 02:13									#15
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But what use would that serve given that we already have an embassy at CGN?

	06-03-2004 01:14									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Mead Please also understand Comrades Voltaire, Hong Hu, T-Ras and I support the unification of the Hive and Drones. Mead

Dont get me wronge. I do beleave we have to go for group victory with them. but not unify the factions.

if letting them eneter our forums (and vice versa) would help making any deiference I think it is acceptable. at this stage in the game we won't be fighting each other any way.

just remember that by setting such standard in this game we might make them suspisius if we do not accept it in further games...

all in all i vote yes to mutual entrance to forums.

	08-03-2004 07:38									#17
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After an extensive (~6 hours!) chat with Kody in which he filled me in on the history of this game and of various rules decisions already made in this game, I have changed my opinion on this issue.

While I would normally prefer that forums be kept seperate becuase I prefer (on a meta-game level) for teams to be forced to trust each other on faith rather than being able to peak into each others' forums... the existence of the CyCon-University merger combined with several other factors (the most important being the mindset of the Drones) makes pursuing the exchange of some members a no-brainer.

Personally, I would suggest at least 2 members from each team having access to the other forum. Those from the Drones that would be most useful for helping us with internal planning (base producion stuff) might even be highly useful aside from simply their diplomatic function. Those we should send to them should, if my understanding of hte nature of that team is correct, be highly knowledgeable individuals by which they would be impressed or at least have significant respect.

The merits of sharing members for maintaining a tight relationship with the Drones are VERY strong. The fact that CyCon has already fully merged with the University removes my own reservation since Pandora's Box was opened long ago on that issue in this game. At this point, the only reasons we would not allow access to our forum by Drones members is if we do not trust them or we're just shooting ourselves in the feet.

I don't think we should fully merge... each faction should retain its own independent character and a strong degree of self-determination. However, sharing a few members will have ENORMOUS benefits.

	08-03-2004 09:04									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos After an extensive (~6 hours!) chat with Kody in which he filled me in on the history of this game and of various rules decisions already made in this game, I have changed my opinion on this issue. While I would normally prefer that forums be kept seperate becuase I prefer (on a meta-game level) for teams to be forced to trust each other on faith rather than being able to peak into each others' forums... the existence of the CyCon-University merger combined with several other factors (the most important being the mindset of the Drones) makes pursuing the exchange of some members a no-brainer. Personally, I would suggest at least 2 members from each team having access to the other forum. Those from the Drones that would be most useful for helping us with internal planning (base producion stuff) might even be highly useful aside from simply their diplomatic function. Those we should send to them should, if my understanding of hte nature of that team is correct, be highly knowledgeable individuals by which they would be impressed or at least have significant respect. The merits of sharing members for maintaining a tight relationship with the Drones are VERY strong. The fact that CyCon has already fully merged with the University removes my own reservation since Pandora's Box was opened long ago on that issue in this game. At this point, the only reasons we would not allow access to our forum by Drones members is if we do not trust them or we're just shooting ourselves in the feet. I don't think we should fully merge... each faction should retain its own independent character and a strong degree of self-determination. However, sharing a few members will have ENORMOUS benefits.

How soon can I sign up to access the Drones Forums?

It would be nice to access their saves, just like CyCon and Uni can access each others saves.

Mead

	09-03-2004 10:16									#19
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*bump*

We need to do this.

	09-03-2004 10:58									#20
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I still want Hive autonomy. But I like Comrade Arnelos' idea of designating 2 opposing members access to the others forum. Whle it may be complex, I support this instead of a full blown integration.

Hive forum for Hive members.

	11-03-2004 22:11									#21
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i think mead seeing their forum is a good idea, since he is turnplayer.
the ambasador should be able too, and vice versa.