05-03-2004 03:53									#211
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How about batting Win Shares?

http://www.baseballgraphs.com/winshares/wingraphs.html

	05-03-2004 04:11									#212
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Imran, you're a law student.
If a metal storage building blows into one's backyard, is it required that it be given back, or it kind of a "Finder's Keepers" scenario ?

	05-03-2004 04:19									#213
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Are you going to be coming into the possession of one?

I'd think you'd probably have to give it back.

	05-03-2004 04:26									#214
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Imran, are you really keeping rankings?

	05-03-2004 04:31									#215
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I am in possession of one.
It doesn't appear to be beaten up too bad, at least in looking out the back door.
Well, I'll tell you one thing, I'm not carrying it anywhere.
They want it, they can come and get it.

	05-03-2004 04:35									#216
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Yup, getting to be that time of year when the cold weather up north clashes with warmer weather from the south.

ANTLERKOV! I still have 1 valid pick from and need to know if you want him.

I sent Imran a pick in case I'm away

	05-03-2004 04:41									#217
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win shares are stupid stats. you dont even know what goes into the formula.

	05-03-2004 04:43									#218
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I have a lot of work to finish tonight. I will probably be able to check in, but just in case it isn't possible, who should I pm my picks to?

	05-03-2004 04:43									#219
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http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2003.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2003.shtml

look at team stats.

	05-03-2004 04:45									#220
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Exeter Reds' current roster (# in parentheses is 2003 Win Shares):

C: Mike Lieberthal (16)
1B: Richie Sexson (26)
2B: Alfonso Soriano (27)
3B: Corey Koskie (21)
SS: Angel Berroa (16)
CF: Carlos Beltran (28)
OF: Brian Giles (25)
OF: Mike Cameron (21)
U:

SP: Mark Mulder (17)
SP: BK Kim (11?)
SP: Joel Piniero (13)
SP: Wade Miller (9)
RP: Keith Foulke (21)
RP: Troy Percival (8)

Berz: just ignore what you have from me.

	05-03-2004 04:48									#221
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quote: Imran, are you really keeping rankings?

Rankings?

quote: Well, I'll tell you one thing, I'm not carrying it anywhere. They want it, they can come and get it.

That's ok. You don't have to pick it up and give it to them, but if they come over and ask for it, you should give it.

quote: win shares are stupid stats. you dont even know what goes into the formula.

Just because YOU don't know what goes in the formula, doesn't mean I don't.

quote: look at team stats.

Does that account for the fact that Boston has a DH, being part of the lesser league? What about park effects? Differences in pitching between the AL and NL?

	05-03-2004 04:48									#222
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the only stat that the Braves lead in is Ks, and they have 10 less than the sox. Over 162, thats 1 K less every 16 games.

	05-03-2004 04:49									#223
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quote: Does that account for the fact that Boston has a DH, being part of the lesser league? What about park effects? Differences in pitching between the AL and NL?

are those differences taken into account in win shares? i dont think so.

	05-03-2004 04:51									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Imran, are you really keeping rankings? Rankings?

You said LOA was last in your rankings... the problem with that statement is that you could just be yanking his chain, but if you were keeping rankings there is little doubt he would be last.

	05-03-2004 04:58									#225
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quote: are those differences taken into account in win shares? i dont think so.

Um YES, they are. Park effects, differences from the mean in hitting catagories are both taken into account in the Win Shares system.

quote: You said LOA was last in your rankings... the problem with that statement is that you could just be yanking his chain, but if you were keeping rankings there is little doubt he would be last.

Oh, subjective rankings. I have little else ranked. Just some teams I say "That's a good team". LoA's team I just don't think is that good at all.

The problem with total rankings right now is that I don't know some people's drafting strategies, which could eliminate the holes I see now.

	05-03-2004 05:01									#226
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The Love Haters--

C: #6 Mike Piazza (11 win shares)
1B: #1 Todd Helton (34)
2B: #9 Luis Castillo (22)
3B: #2 Scott Rolen (25)
SS: #7 Orlando Cabrera (20)
CF: #3 Preston Wilson (20)
OF: #11 Richard Hidalgo (20)
OF: #14 Juan Gonzalez (10)
U:

SP: #4 Esteban Loaiza (22)
SP: #5 Barry Zito (18)
SP: #10 Livan Hernandez (22)
SP: #13 Woody Williams (13)
RP: #8 Joe Borowski (14)
RP: #12 LaTroy Hawkins (13)

Bear in mind that both Piazza and Gonzalez only played about half a season.

That's all very interesting. One question:

What in the name of high holy hell is a win-share?

	05-03-2004 05:06									#227
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quote: What in the name of high holy hell is a win-share?

It's a new measure created by Bill James (who has created many states including Runs Created). Basically it is a 'Wins Created' stat.

This is the link to the book:

http://www.stats.com/store/store.asp?page=wins

	05-03-2004 05:32									#228
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quote: Um YES, they are. Park effects, differences from the mean in hitting catagories are both taken into account in the Win Shares system.

which is stupid. hitting categories are only as good as the team faced. i bet tiger stadium is ranked as a 'hitters park' but only cuz the pitchers blow.

	05-03-2004 05:34									#229
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jdd, send them to Imran and me

	05-03-2004 05:49									#230
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Manny = 28
Nomar = 25
Mueller = 23 (with questionable sustainability)
Nixon = 19
Varitek = 17
Ortiz = 15
Walker = 15
Petitte = 15
Baldelli = 14
Lowe = 12
Timlin = 8
Guillen = 20
Nen = DNP

Last edited by Lawrence of Arabia on 05-03-2004 at 06:39

	05-03-2004 05:51									#231
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R. Ortiz = 16

total = 217 + rob nen
average = 16.7 + robb nen

Last edited by Lawrence of Arabia on 05-03-2004 at 06:41

	05-03-2004 05:53									#232
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in 02, robb nen had a 15 ws.

so total = 242.0
average = 17.3

Last edited by Lawrence of Arabia on 05-03-2004 at 06:43

	05-03-2004 06:10									#233
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LoA: Guillen played in both leagues, so his WS are a bit out of whack... he had 3 WS for Oakland, 17 for Cincy, so 20 total.

As for the Tigers' home park...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/2003.shtml

Park factors for the '03 Tigers were 95/95 (basically, Comerica decreased RS and RA by about 5%).

Now if you want a team whose performance was really out of whack... go here. Look at the Royals. (Also note that the Red Sox played 7 games WORSE than their actual W-L record, and that the Braves were better than the Phillies anyway.)

	05-03-2004 06:10									#234
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quote: hitting categories are only as good as the team faced.

Indeed, that is why it is compared with the mean pitching ERA of the teams in the league they played against.

quote: i bet tiger stadium is ranked as a 'hitters park' but only cuz the pitchers blow.

No, because of runs/game (both teams) compared to the runs/game of teams in other parks (especially the home team).

	05-03-2004 06:39									#235
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quote: Indeed, that is why it is compared with the mean pitching ERA of the teams in the league they played against.

right, so you have a crappy division (like NL West) where the mean ERA is very high. not to mention, when they play interleague, which mean do they use? the mean of the mean? or the median?

	05-03-2004 06:50									#236
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Are we still waiting on Soul Survivor and then Jdd?

	05-03-2004 06:59									#237
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quote: right, so you have a crappy division (like NL West) where the mean ERA is very high.

They use the mean ERA of all teams that come in and how many earned runs they give up, etc. The mean is the average of runs/game of ALL ballparks and the differences from that to the specific ballpark. How it differs. And you take averages from all the years the park has been in existance.

Here is the mathematical formula:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a...arkadjust.shtml

I could copy it here, but it's absolutely massive.

	05-03-2004 07:00									#238
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oh ****, i just remembered that i have his pick

SS picks A. Boone.

	05-03-2004 07:01									#239
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quote: Are we still waiting on Soul Survivor and then Jdd?

yep.

	05-03-2004 07:08									#240
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sorry about the delay I haven't had time to stop by all day

A. Kennedy