03-03-2004 23:44									#1
	CGN Gifting Us Agincourt, Waterloo, et al. Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

CGN may find themselves in trouble and GWT may press down on them where CGN is unable to hold the chokepoints. If that occurs, CGN may want to gift us the cities (including the new city that they'll soon build Waterloo 8-9).

What do people think of this possibility? Should we offer it to CGN? Should we refuse in case CGN asks?

	04-03-2004 00:29									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The trouble with this would be that GWT would suspect CGN of teleporting or evacuating wounded units/units that attacked and then were teleported. We'd open this whole annoying unresolved argument up again.

On the plus side we might delay GWT a bit if they could go around us, but if they couldn't go around us they'd just sack the cities and sue for peace with Apolyton in @5 turns. Negligable WW hit.

Not sure if the pluses outweigh the minuses here. Any other benfits I'm missing?

--Togas

	04-03-2004 00:57									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If we can offer proof that no units with expired MP were evacuated (or rather, if CGN can prove it), go for it. I'd like to keep the game moving along, since it's when the game's held up that it starts degenerating into flame wars and such.

	04-03-2004 01:30									#4
	Suffering from ads?

Yes to gifting cities.

No to ANY warping of units; even if they have MP's left.

	04-03-2004 02:00									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I don't understand.

Why in the world would CGN want to gift us their best defensive ground? If they cannot hold that front, they're screwed.

If we take the cities, GWT will just roll right through, unhindered, as far as I can see.

There is a point at which CGN needs to stop GWT, or it's all over. That point is the Agincourt/Waterloo area.

-Arrian

	04-03-2004 02:56									#6
	Support Apolyton

I doubt GWT will be stalled a 2nd time.
The cities are of such strategic importance, I doubt they will go around.

	04-03-2004 03:30									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I agree with Arian. If it comes to CGN *needing* to gift us their choke points, then we would be hitching our wagon to a lame horse. At that point it *is* over, and I don't think for one second GWT will not just march on through despite 5 turns of WW. All we'd gain is a 5 turn happiness boost, and we'd lose any chance of ever not having them being 100% atagonistic towards us for the rest of the game.

	04-03-2004 09:52									#8
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I am with those saying this would be the point of break. If it comes to that, the war is effectively over. I'd rather not accept the cities - from the strategic point of view, we'd achieve little to nothing. And it just does not feel right to me.