07-03-2004 02:43									#91
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I give up to your superior logic! Indeed, a system, underwhich many die because they cannot afford medicine, and people overpaying for medicine due to the "need to make profit" is superior.

Thanks, Ned.

	07-03-2004 04:35									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie I'm not familiar with this expression but it sounds like it's something bad. Bill and Monica was nothing. Who cares where he puts his organ, except Hillary? Bush had much worse scandals, still no one has dared to impeach him.

Oh, it means that the arguments are directed at persons rather than ideas.

I mean, all of this doesn't sound that bad. Who cares if she hired a cleaning maid under the table, or pissed on the floor? That doesn't dismiss the party as a whole.

	07-03-2004 05:34									#93
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It proves they are hypocrites, if the party leader keeps breaking the fundamental ideology of the party and gets away with it. Not the pissing on the floor scandal but all the rest.

	07-03-2004 06:50									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I give up to your superior logic! Indeed, a system, underwhich many die because they cannot afford medicine, and people overpaying for medicine due to the "need to make profit" is superior. Thanks, Ned.

What country are you talking about? Surely not the US? Here the poor are covered by various government programs such as Medical. Many who are not poor simply pay as they go, but this does expose them to major expenses if they become seriously ill.

I personally am in favor of providing health insurance in some form to all Americans. What I oppose is making it "free" for all. We need some out-of-pocket costs and deductablity to reduce abuse.

I also oppose any form of a complete government takeover that would seek to limit choices and to regulate prices. We all know where that leads.

(I am constantly amazed that communists assume that people would not abuse a free health care system.)

	07-03-2004 07:06									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Ned (I am constantly amazed that communists assume that people would not abuse a free health care system.)

How exactly does one go about "abusing" healthcare? Pretending to be sick? That's got to be about the dumbest thing I've heard you say.... I'm impressed, you out-Nedded yourself.

jon.

	07-03-2004 07:20									#96
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Sudden thought: if you are accused of demagogy, is stirring up an angry mob on the internet the best way of disproving that accusation?

	07-03-2004 07:23									#97
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Populist demagogues messing with the people! But the people know! They understaaaaaand who the real enemy is. They see it clearly! They see the populist demagogues spewing their poisonous trickery venom on the peeeeeople. And the peeeople will have revenge!!!!

	07-03-2004 08:07									#98
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quote: Originally posted by joncha How exactly does one go about "abusing" healthcare? Pretending to be sick? That's got to be about the dumbest thing I've heard you say.... I'm impressed, you out-Nedded yourself. jon.

jon, you really are out-of-touch with reality. I bet you even believe in the tooth fairy.

	07-03-2004 08:15									#99
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Okay then who was leaving all that money under my pillow WISE GUY????

	07-03-2004 08:16									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Ned jon, you really are out-of-touch with reality. I bet you even believe in the tooth fairy.

I never believed the Nedaverse could contain such delicious irony.

	07-03-2004 13:15									#101
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skywalker, why don't go **** yourself. You are the most annoying ass*ole I have ever had the extreme displeasure to "meet." I am quite ashamed that you claim to be on the right. You are obviously are not.

	07-03-2004 18:56									#103
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This thread has turned de-licious!

And yes, people can healthcare, we have such occurences in France: the former government granted a completely free healthcare to the most destitute parts of our society. It resulted in some people going to WAY too many doctors, to take tons of medication to send to the family in the country or origin. A pharmacist pal of mine even served someone who took tons of free medication for his horse.

We in the left need to accept the idea that some people will abuse the system, instead of living in denial. And we, unlike the rightwingers, need to say these systems are very much needed nonetheless, because for one abuser, there are throngs of people who really need this system and would be in terrible misery if it wasn't for them. We should look for ways to punish abuses, so that no theft is performed at the expense of those who really need it.

	07-03-2004 19:01									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Sudden thought: if you are accused of demagogy, is stirring up an angry mob on the internet the best way of disproving that accusation?

It could have been, if I had portrayed him as an evil loser or something.

But I tried to give the most accurate picture of the situation, and I tried not to insult him past what he did to me. This guy has had some achievements in local politics, this guy doesn't only spout nonsense in his critics towards the Party. So I didn't try to gather an angry mob, but rather to vent my frustration.

	07-03-2004 19:18									#105
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Even in Britain, with the NHS, 25% of people won't go to a doctor no matter how serious the problem. This kinda balances out the hypocondriacs.

	08-03-2004 00:12									#106
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SKYWALKER is the most annoying guy you've ever met? Are you hanging out on the same OT forums as the rest of us? The one where every third thread is titled, "How those stupid conservatives screw us over on purpose so they can get tax cuts and get women and minorities to carry them in a palanquin to the country club," or "Poll: Why do you religionist freaks keep justifying your weakness in the face of our endlessly condescending recitation of recycled existentialism?" And that's just the ludicrously belligerent *liberal* trolls, which might offend you personally. Sky is practically Abraham Lincoln by the standards of this place. Jeez.

	08-03-2004 00:51									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor This thread has turned de-licious! And yes, people can healthcare, we have such occurences in France: the former government granted a completely free healthcare to the most destitute parts of our society. It resulted in some people going to WAY too many doctors, to take tons of medication to send to the family in the country or origin. A pharmacist pal of mine even served someone who took tons of free medication for his horse. We in the left need to accept the idea that some people will abuse the system, instead of living in denial. And we, unlike the rightwingers, need to say these systems are very much needed nonetheless, because for one abuser, there are throngs of people who really need this system and would be in terrible misery if it wasn't for them. We should look for ways to punish abuses, so that no theft is performed at the expense of those who really need it.

I can see, Spiffor, why your fellow commies would call you a traitor. It is amazing to see someone on the left with common sense.

	08-03-2004 00:53									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Elok SKYWALKER is the most annoying guy you've ever met? Are you hanging out on the same OT forums as the rest of us? The one where every third thread is titled, "How those stupid conservatives screw us over on purpose so they can get tax cuts and get women and minorities to carry them in a palanquin to the country club," or "Poll: Why do you religionist freaks keep justifying your weakness in the face of our endlessly condescending recitation of recycled existentialism?" And that's just the ludicrously belligerent *liberal* trolls, which might offend you personally. Sky is practically Abraham Lincoln by the standards of this place. Jeez.

Elok, I thorough enjoy jousting with the left. When they insult me, I know it is politically motivated. When the likes of Skywalker insult me, I know it is personal.

	08-03-2004 00:54									#109
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Spiffor, you might be amazed, but if I could vote for you, I would.

	08-03-2004 00:57									#110
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Spiffor: go to your library, get a whole bunch of those magazine subscription cards, put his address on there and check the box "bill me later". Try to do it for like 100 magazines. It will be such a pain in the ass for him to cancel all that ****. And it might **** up his credit rating as well.

	08-03-2004 00:58									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Ned skywalker, why don't go **** yourself. You are the most annoying ass*ole I have ever had the extreme displeasure to "meet." I am quite ashamed that you claim to be on the right. You are obviously are not.

	08-03-2004 00:59									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Sava

Are you jealous?

	08-03-2004 01:00									#113
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yes I never got you that mad before

	08-03-2004 01:01									#114
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Sava, I always enjoy discussing issues with you. You are one of my favorite people.

	08-03-2004 01:13									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sava, I always enjoy discussing issues with you. You are one of my favorite people.

I luv u too

	08-03-2004 01:16									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Elok, I thorough enjoy jousting with the left. When they insult me, I know it is politically motivated. When the likes of Skywalker insult me, I know it is personal.

When I insult you, it's ALSO politically motivated. "Conservatives" aren't some monolithic group, Ned. I'm one, you're one, and we believe VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

	08-03-2004 01:17									#117
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skywalker, you're too young to be conservative... at least be a free-thinking liberal for a few years before you turn into an angry, hateful conservative.

	08-03-2004 01:20									#118
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Let me rephrase it, then... I'm a free-thinking person who happens to agree with a group of people who are labelled "conservative"

	08-03-2004 01:48									#119
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Maybe Sava's right. You should be an angry, hateful liberal like him. Now, repeat after me: "neo-fascist repuglican ****!"


Just kidding, Sava. We all love you. Anyway, Ned, Strom Thurmond was "conservative," and I wouldn't call it personal if he flamed you. I'd call it miraculous, as he's dead and probably though computers were some form of Jewish Media Conspiracy or something anyway, but that's beside the point.

	08-03-2004 02:11									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I can see, Spiffor, why your fellow commies would call you a traitor. It is amazing to see someone on the left with common sense.

I'm not exactly fond of "common sense", because it is mostly a collection of prejudices and hasty judgments.

But I like to see with eyes unclouded, maybe because of my sociology background. I like to take as many elements I can into account, to get as close to reality as I can. And this knowledge will help me to find the best solution for commie aims.

I've noticed many rightwingers use welfare abusers as an excuse to attack welfare itself. I personally am completely opposed to this logic: I think of welfare abusers as thieves who should be punished from robbing money from those who actually need welfare (well, it's a tad more complex than that, because abusers often need welfare to some extent, albeit a very much lower extent than what they actually use)- but welfare IS great, and the existence of abusers doesn't make it any less great.