06-03-2004 13:50									#1
	The AI just pulled a good trick on me... Inflate your Upload Space

Has anyone had this happen before??

I was playing as the Greeks, C3C, Emperor game.

Modern Age, was absolutely owning the other civs, but myself had always been a peaceful civ - never attack unless attacked was a rule I'd stuck by the whole game.

One nation I'd been particularly kind to were my neighbours the Byzantanines, who I'd propped up giving gold, tech, cities etc to for the last 1000 years....even fended off a war from the north from the Egyptians to protect them.

I was a democracy, so I decided that I wouldn't station any troops in my cities, you know, big marines with guns just not cool for a free society and all.

So one turn, one of my border cities culture flipped to the Byzantanines...oh well, not much I could do, that was their choice!! (being the peaceful player and all).

The very next turn though, I got a scientific great leader, so he was in my capital of course. Decided to leave him for building the cure for cancer. Then, during the computers turn, the Byzantines (who I had a rite of passage with) decided they'd move an infantry unit into my capital and declare war on me. The great ancient capital of athens was raised!!

Suffice to say, i'd never seen such a sneaky bad arse move by the AI before, I was highly impressed.

Ofcourse, if they'd been really smart, they would have moved infantry outside all my cities then declared war, then entered all my cities (which ofcourse were undefended)....

...as it was, i got away quite lightly. The Byzantanies on the other hand didn't, as I promised a holy war upon them to seek revenge for the razing of Athens. 5 turns later, they were out of the game as my Modern Armour rolled across their nation, unstoppable!

	06-03-2004 13:56									#2
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Ouch that hurts. One thing I make a point of when rails roll around is never leave a city undefended if you have a ROP. I've had a gracious civ do the same thing to me before.

If you had been playing against a human player your civ would have been wiped out. Just ask Tiberius.

	06-03-2004 14:41									#3
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I will only sign RoP under three well defined conditions:

1) I will sign RoPs (and MPPs) with all AIs except for the #2 Civ on the turn before I call a UN Secretary General Vote (MPPs and RoP make the AI more "friendly" toward you, helping you get their vote for a diplomatic victory).

2) I have sufficent troops to make a "wall" to prevent any AI incursions via land. If an AI lands on the coast, I move enough troops to surround the landed units, again, preventing him from moving.

3) I am planning a RoP rape of the AI. Again this requires massive amounts of troops (stacks of Artillery and Tanks, enough to wipe out the AI in question in one turn.

If I have enough troops, I use conditions 2 and 3 at the same time. Sign RoP with as many AI civs one turn, place troops in strategic locations. RoP rape that civ (must be mindful of MPPs that they have) and reposition my "wall". Turn 2, same thing to another civ (and so on until domination victory).

	06-03-2004 16:12									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ah, so this kind of strat is known as a RoP rape?? Rightio.

I've used the wall tactic in games before, but only to keep out very unfriendly civs. It never occoured to me that a friendly AI civ would pull this on me!

Anyway, may have to keep the Mech Inf in cities all the time from now on though. I hope my constituents understand

	06-03-2004 20:32									#5
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AI attacking 1 city w/ ROP might have been a dileberate choice by the programmers to strike a balance between AI sneakiness and frustrating human players

I don't think it would have been that hard to get the AI to move troops next to all your undefended city, and capture /raze them. But i suspsect if the AI did that, players will be whining about the AI being cheap etc. even though human players would have done exactly the same.

Then again, maybe the AI was being kind in return for all your years of support

Last edited by dexters on 06-03-2004 at 20:47

	06-03-2004 23:02									#6
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RoP, I don't need no stinking RoP.

Sorry to laugh, but peaceful if fine, crazy is another.

	07-03-2004 02:01									#7
	Tired of ads?

I sign ROP's if I need them. In certain situations they can be extremely benificial. These are the main uses I have for ROP's

1. My ship is moving through a civ's territory (exploring) , and the ship (and Civ) is far from home. Instead of endlessly pissing off the civ and recieving many empty threats, sign a ROP. The risk of incurring a ROP rape is minimal due to distance involved.

2. Civilization A is at war with Civilization B. Civilization B declares war on you but Civilization A is between you and Civilization B. Sign a ROP with CIV A and you can kill or trim Civ B with little chance of a backstab.

3. CIvilization B is at war with CIV A. They want to move troops through your territory. Signing a ROP is more risky in this situation but could also be used as an opportunity by allowing most of the Civ's offensive troops fight Civ A, then ROP rape Civ B, making it a much easier conquest had you acted in a more honorable fashion.

A note on ROP rapes: The AI is notorious for attacking easy or undefended targets. Leaving at least one modern garrison unit in all of yoiur cities significantly reduces your chances for ROP-rapes. (although I have been ROP-raped for a worker before)

	07-03-2004 02:25									#8
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I would not go so far as to say they are never useful or justified, but I can't remember the last one I had.

Also the level of the game can preclude them.

	09-03-2004 12:53									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

RoP, Railroads and empty cities is a bad combination. Either keep units in your cities or at chokepoints to make sure the AI doesn't get any ideas.

I once lost close to 30 workers to an AI RoP-rape btw. He actually managed to take out ALL workers on that continent, but no cities. It almost looked like he was acting out a plan Not a long-term one exactly, only thing that saved him from extinction was that I crossed the dominiation limit.

The AI is a weak soul, once the temptation get's too big he will attack

	09-03-2004 14:54									#10
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I rarely use them. Only time is when I want to help keep the AI's happy for a diplomatic win.

The AI spends enough time already wandering around my lands as if he owns the place, when I am poor and weak and can do diddly squat about it.....without me having to invite him back!

	09-03-2004 21:26									#11
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do you think the SGL impacted this decision? i assume it was in Athens at the time of the attack. did it happen THE TURN AFTER you got it?

	09-03-2004 21:45									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Leaving your cities undefended and having a RoP with the AI is just too much for the AI... it can't help it. It cannot resist the big juicy target.

You must not have played that many games if this is the first time the AI has done something like that.

I learned this the hard way a long time ago.

I sign RoPs under the following circumstances:

1) early in the game for exploration and of course the bonus to AI attitude (they like you better if you have a RoP), when most of my cities are garrisoned for MP happiness anyway, roads are relatively scarce, and the fastest units around are 2-movers like Jags.

2) RoP's with overseas civs I meet via "suicide" curragh or galley runs, so that I can sail through their territory without making them hate me.

3) Later in the game, with civs that cannot actually USE the RoP, either due to a troop wall of mine or because they are on another continent.

The biggest danger is after railroads. Then all it takes is 1 AI unit to waltz into your capital and burn it. As you now know.

-Arrian

	11-03-2004 15:23									#13
	Remove this text

Ouch. I really feel for you. I'm surprised your collected enough to post about it. I'd still be kicking the sh*t out of my computer and the C3C cd.