07-03-2004 04:24									#1
	New Multiplayer Game - Peace in Our Time Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hello all!

I want to start a different kind of multiplayer game. The idea here is to win by Transcendence, Economy, Diplomacy or Cooperation. No war is permitted. We will build, explore and research. These are our "weapons" and we will always have multiple winners!

Here are the ideas:

1) I´m not sure if its possible to gather ALL players in a cooperative victory against the computer. But if thats the case, we can go into that direction. We just gather all players with the same objectives (diplomacy, economy or research) and win (this is the fastest game). Maximum of 3 players, agains 4 computer on transcend level.

2) We can form two groups of 3 players (or three groups of two players), that fight for a cooperative victory against the other groups. The idea here is that each player support his own group with money, technology and votes in the planetary council, until one of the three victories are reached (money, diplomacy or technology). In this case, groups are allowed to use force only against the computer faction. The only way to conquer cities from the other groups is by EXCHANGING or BUYING. Of course we may use force at will to defend agains the fungus. In case a group wins using diplomacy, we will count the victory to the entire group and not to the player that had the most votes and ended with two "followers" (in case the group was formed by three people). The same goes to Economic Victory and Transcend. We dont have a "winner". We have a GROUP.

3) We can use the same groups (two groups of three people or three groups of two people) and play with objectives. All players gather in the forum and decide, for example, that the first group that reach $100.000 (combined money), is the winner. Or the first group that gather 500 votes in the planetary council is the winner. Or the first group that build at least 50 Orbital Power Transmiters is the winner... In all those cases, we are creating informal ways of winning and the game will end as soon as the conditions are ok. (For example, if players decided that $100.000 is the condition to win the game and any group reach that condition, this group will immediately wins, even if that money is not enough to display a "Economic Victory". What matters here is to create a condition and go for it, even if the game dont recognize it.


I accept other ideas and modifications on these. We can go online if people are gathered and PBEM during weeks. Since we are playing with no war, we will go with simultaneous moves to make things go faster.

Lets go!

	08-03-2004 00:30									#2
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I'm game - to make it more competitive you might permit three teams of two players. I'd like to take the Drones if it's two teams of three - the University if it's three teams of two.

	08-03-2004 03:43									#3
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If we can gather 6 here, it´ll be very fun to play as three teams, lets see how many people will show here!
I personally prefer the Pirates.

	08-03-2004 10:02									#4
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I'm interested

	08-03-2004 12:43									#5
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I'm liking this too. I'd go for the Gaians or Data Angels myself

	08-03-2004 16:13									#6
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Im 5th!
Id go for Morgan or Lal
(like Univ & Pirates too,but they appear to be taken)

Also - about those conditions:
You should consider giving Lal to anyone a bad style - he gets too many votes and can make Golden Age easily and reach high population cause of less Hab restrictions, so he has 3 bonuses!

Morgan should be placed in one group with Yang, to balance the economy and Drones/Believers should be placed in one group with Univ/Cyborgs to balance research
Otherwise we could end good players losing only because they like Hive or Believers or because someone gets Lal

About diplomacy between members of different groups - is it restricted or free (can make even pact) or there is limit of Treaty?

	08-03-2004 22:26									#7
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I'm flexible about which faction I get... I want to get a confirmation that i'm in before choosing . This should be a fun PBEM and im looking forward to it

	09-03-2004 04:30									#8
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Good! Now we have 5 players!
I agree with Travkin. We probably have to give Lal to the computer. He has many advantages. I also think that Univ cant go with Cyborgs in the same team. What do you guys think of this combination? We can form two teams inside these factions.

1) Cyborgs
Morgan
Pirates
Hive

2) University
Gaians
Angels
Drones

Or we can form three teams inside those:

1) Cyborgs
Pirates

2) University
Drones

3) Morgan
Hive or Gaians

About the rules, we will make pact with our comrades but I´m unsure about Treaties with other factions. In time, we can tell, by the income of those treaties, how things are going with then. I prefer to play ignoring totally what the other group is doing (suspense is cool!). But if you prefer that we make treaties, thats ok for me.

Everybody here is invited to play, to take your seats! I want you to vote on the subject above (about our combinations). Remember that Lal is going to the computer.

	09-03-2004 05:45									#9
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I like 3 teams myself - where might the Angels go in a 3 team setup, btw? (Before I ma\ke my final choice )

	09-03-2004 06:05									#10
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About those treaties - question was "what is the highest relation allowed for non-group diplomacy"

And "treaty" was just a proposal to that maximum.
Any other diplomatic state could be considered as maximum also
It is completely votable!
But I vote for - non-group relations are allowed and any state is allowed,so a player can even get 6 pacts!(very good for peaceful play)

	09-03-2004 06:20									#11
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I take Morgan and therefore go in one team with Hive or Gaians

So we have 3 teams with 1 player in each:
1)Pirates - Cosmic

2)Univ - Shawnmcc

3)Morgan - binTravkin

Other 2 players should choose their team and fac.
For 1st team - should be a researcher fac: CyCon or Angels(techshare, 3)
For 2nd team - should be a non-researcher fac: Believers/Hive/Spartans/ChaDawn
For 3rd team - should be a not energy-fattened fac: Hive/Gaians/ChaDawn

Take your seats gentlemen!

And any of you who just enter this thread - we need 1 more player!

	09-03-2004 06:21									#12
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Is probing allowed?
Is it considered a reason for Vendetta and therefore a military action?

	09-03-2004 06:30									#13
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Hey Travkin,

If we have 6 pacts, our rival group can see what we are doing, building, researching.... I dont think this is good, but we can go for treaties, no problem.

One of the cool things in the game will be the decisions made by each individual team.
"Well, now we have acess to the Cloning Vaults, who is going to build it? For our group grown strong, we must think in our three factions working synergetically. A very diplomatic game, indeed!

I´m not sure about the Angels... since we´re going into a lot of pacts and treaties, the Angels become a disbalanced faction. They´ll know everything in a few turns and unbalance the game! What do you guys think? Lets vote!!

And yes, WE NEED ONLY ONE MORE!!!!

	09-03-2004 07:12									#14
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I kind of prefer three groups but two are fine with me.
I don't mind the Cult or Believers if nobody else has an objection.

I noted that you wanted stimluatous play - how is that possible? Just for clarification this is PBEM correct?

	09-03-2004 12:06									#15
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DataAeolus - its your choice now, which group to join!
If you want Believers, it should be 2nd group.

About Angels - we could consider them a Highly scientific faction and give them to 1st group..

	09-03-2004 12:07									#16
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And yes - is it a PBEM or TCP/IP ?

	09-03-2004 12:09									#17
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About those pacts - anyone could decide, how much information he can give to a rival group..in exchange of needed credits

I have not received the answer about probing yet

	09-03-2004 13:39									#18
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I just remembered - Planetary Datalinks gives the same tecshare, 3 ability as Angels have, so we must not discriminate them for their probing - anyone can receive this ability later!
I also predict that the group who has it, might be the winner in most cases, cause it dont want to research anything, just to wait for others to do it.
But on the other hand - expierenced players never trade too much in the beginning - they just watch not to research the same tech 2 times, because it slows research and thus the techshare ability will not be so much of a threat.
I predict that one of the most wanted projects will be "The Planetary Datalinks"
Also - about deciding which one from the group will build the SP - I suppose the researcher of required tech should have "The Rights To Build", but this will only work if only 1 group posess the required tech.
If others have it too and are starting to build then there should be Rush rule wich means - who 1st completes it, gets it.

EDIT:
There should be a rule that building of Planetary Datalinks is restricted for group who has Angels in it

	09-03-2004 14:08									#19
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I forget entirely the planetary datalinks. I agree with you and think that we should give it to the group with the angels. Otherwise we may have the group of Univ with this ability, for example. Not a good idea....

Probe is forbidden. This is a peaceful game and spying the other players doesnt combine with peace. We are already focusing our efforts in research and avoiding war. I know that this makes the Hunter Seeker Algorythm less useful, but we must avoid having factions spying and framing others. In future, who knows, we can build a game where probes have a big role, but its not the case right now. But we can go after the AI faction, as I said before. We can attack and use probe at will (taking care that this probe doest frame other people)

I meant simultaneous moves if we gather to play online. During weeks we go for the PBEM.

	09-03-2004 15:32									#20
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I was thinking that we should not give the Planetary Datalinks to Angels group, just spoke it unclear.. anyways its a good idea to give them this SP..
They wont have any use of it

But we should reconsider this point when first human faction researches Cyberethics in-game, by that time we will be able to judge whether sharetech, 3 is a too big advantage for a group.
If it is - we should announce that anyone, but Angels group, can build it

If it is not a too big advantage we should restrict building of Planetary Datalinks by Human player - AI will then get much strenght from this SP..

Addon:
AI will get some cute projects if we are so extremely peaceful - the values of all war related SPs will be lowered in human eyes and there will be bigger chance that AI will build them

If its possible AI player should be placed with great care - not to be too close to any of humans (maintain similarity in distances)

Last edited by binTravkin on 09-03-2004 at 15:38

	09-03-2004 16:37									#21
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Am I right that there is still sixth place open? if yes, i'm into the game

wouldn't it be good to have all 7 factions human here? if there is no war scheduled, will the computer obey that rule? or there will be only 6 factions in a scenario?

	09-03-2004 16:41									#22
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We have to decide with the others:

1) We´re going to have pacts with other groups: Please post your vote.

YES
NO - Cosmic


2) Angels should be in the game: Please post your vote.

YES
NO - Cosmic

3) If you answered yes in the second question, we have to know if the Planetary Datalinks will be free to any faction or restricted to them.

Any Faction-
DataAngels-


My personal opinion about the third subject is that if any faction can build the planetary datalinks, then this faction will have the same power that the angels have naturally. But the angels dont have +2 research like univesity or +1 economic like Morgan and no special project will never give this to then, so they´ll lose power. But all players have to decide that, then we can start the game knowing what will happen in the future, right?

	09-03-2004 17:52									#23
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Idea about those 7 players - If we are 7 humans, then there are 4 groups (3 of 2 players and 1 of 1 player)
Only fac I see in this last 7th place is PKs - if anyone is so brave&is going to compete with others united in teams of two, he must be given some advantages.
PKs basically are very good for Diplomatic victory, but it is not enough - we shall then state a rule that only fac to have access to "The Planetary Datalinks" is PKs..
We can also give him some other bonuses like 1 extra tech (it should then be SocPsych so they can rush SoHB) or some credits or a colony pod/former

huh... hard discussion..

Votes:
-----------------------------------------
Look at the end of the thread!
-----------------------------------------

Last edited by binTravkin on 10-03-2004 at 02:04

	09-03-2004 17:56									#24
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Gentlemen, please post your polls!

	09-03-2004 19:50									#25
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Yes, executive veto, I liked the idea!!! LOL

1.Pacts allowed with rival teams:
Cosmic - No
binTravkin - Yes
DataAeolus - ?
Shawnmcc - ?
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - ?

2.Angels in:
Cosmic - No
binTravkin - Yes
DataAeolus - ?
Shawnmcc - ?
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - ?

2a.The Planetary Datalinks:
Cosmic - N/A
binTravkin - Any Fac/PKs if we're 7
DataAeolus - ?
Shawnmcc - ?
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - ?

3.7th player:
Cosmic - No. I prefer only 6 facs with no AI.
binTravkin - Yes, if one shows up soon
DataAeolus - ?
Shawnmcc - ?
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - Yes, or 6 facs+no AI

3a.Any AI in-game?:
Cosmic - No
binTravkin - No
DataAeolus - ?
Shawnmcc - ?
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - No

4.Do we need a CMN?:
Cosmic - ?
binTravkin - No, theres a too low chance that both from group will have bad sites
DataAeolus - ?
Shawnmcc - ?
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - ?

Sorry travkin, whats a CMN?

Hey, do you know if this forum supports thread votation (things like yes / no) where people just click and the thread says who voted, etc? That could help in situations like this. I think we will need to discuss more things even after the beggining of the game.

Well, since we now have 6 people, we can finally start the game, but if we are going with 6 human with no AI, I have to edit the map (I never did this before), someone can help?

Lets wait for all players vote then we decide the order of the teams and then we start, fine?

	09-03-2004 20:30									#26
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I'd be willing to be a 7th player, solo style if you guys decide you want one. PK's are just lovely

SPAMmj_blakemore@uk2SPAM.net

Edit: No extra techs though... that'd just make my research really slow

	09-03-2004 22:10									#27
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Totally for CMN (map designer and makes initial placements - to keep pairs located sort of close by.

Seventh player - no, unless maybe Data Angels as solo, see how they do stealing tech See this as team game.

Data Angels, yes but also the Planetary Datalinks.

Pacts - only for the pairs. Not between teams.

No AI. Maybe large map with three island continents? One team on each?

	09-03-2004 22:30									#28
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1.Pacts allowed with rival teams:
No - Treaties are fine but no pacts.

2.Angels in:
Yes if a player wants to play them

2a.The Planetary Datalinks:
Any Factions

3.7th player:
Yes if someone doesn't mind having 6 factions ganging up on him

3a.Any AI in-game?:
If no 7th player, make the 7th faction AI

4.Do we need a CMN?:
Well from what I understood this is normally done?


Word of caution - I don't want to commit to TCP/IP game due to the lack of spare time on my part. I don't think you can do that - switching from TCP/IP to PBEM and back? So if you want TCP/IP I will have to bow out. I hope not but if that's the case, it's probably for the best.

	10-03-2004 00:47									#29
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quote: I don't think you can do that - switching from TCP/IP to PBEM and back? So if you want TCP/IP I will have to bow out. I hope not but if that's the case, it's probably for the best.

You can switch back and forth between the two, its what i would normally prefer when playing pbem's ie, spending a couple of hours flying though the first 40-50 turns with people then carrying on as a pbem when you've got abit to manage.

	10-03-2004 02:01									#30
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Votes:
Remember - Cosmic as a thread starter holds an executive veto on this poll!

1.Pacts allowed:
Cosmic - No
binTravkin - Yes
DataAeolus - No
Shawnmcc - No
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - ?

2.Angels in:
Cosmic - No
binTravkin - Yes
DataAeolus - Yes
Shawnmcc - Yes
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - ?

2a.The Planetary Datalinks:
Cosmic - N/A
binTravkin - Any Fac/PKs if we're 7
DataAeolus - Any Fac
Shawnmcc - Angels (? have I understood you Shawn?)
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - ?

3.7th player:
Cosmic - $ YES $
binTravkin - Yes, if one shows up soon
DataAeolus - Yes if he doesn't mind 6 facs ganging up on him
Shawnmcc - No
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - Yes, or 6 facs+no AI
-------------------------------------
--Remark:
This one is over, result is Yes
-------------------------------------

3a.Any AI in-game?:
Cosmic - No
binTravkin - No
DataAeolus - Yes if 1 fac free
Shawnmcc - No
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - No
-------------------------------------
--Remark:
This one is over, result is No
-------------------------------------

4.Do we need a CMN?:
Cosmic - ?
binTravkin - Yes, I changed my mind
DataAeolus - Yes
Shawnmcc - Yes
Makahlua - ?
Mart7x5 - ?

Good idea expressed by Shawn - to have 3 continents with a team on each

To Chaunk:
If Makahlua wont show up, you can get his place..

Makahlua where are you?

About CMN - maybe Mart or Shawn can find one for us - they are the most expierenced at Poly and know buddies who can help

About votation - ask moderators, its possible that there is such thing

Last edited by binTravkin on 10-03-2004 at 03:15