07-03-2004 13:01									#1
	Carriers: Is There Anyway to Get the AI to Use Them? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Everyone:

Any tips would be appreciated. I've tried a number of approaches via the RULES.TXT file — making 'em cheaper, for starters — and nothing works. The AI simply will *not* use carriers.

It's annoying.

Gatekeeper

	07-03-2004 22:04									#2
	Support Apolyton

This is one of the great mysteries of Civ2. In scenarios, it's possible to force the use of carriers (to simulate Taranto, Pearl Harbour) but I haven't found a way to make the AI use them in vanilla civ.

For that matter, I don't find that many human players make much use of them. They're quite expensive (especially when loaded - 1120 shields!) and vulnerable to anything from submarines to cruise missiles.

Let us know if any breakthroughs are made.

Last edited by Six Thousand Year Old Man on 07-03-2004 at 22:09

	07-03-2004 23:37									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Getting the AI to function better in many areas was the great hope before the Civ3 apostasy, but we seem to be stuck with this for now. Maybe one day the code will be available...

On another note...

Great to see your name again, STYOM!! Hope you will be around more.

Monk

	08-03-2004 00:12									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

STYOM:

I've made 'em cheaper, given them the ability of AEGIS cruisers in regards to missiles and whatnot ... and I've met failure at every turn. Hmm. Well, if I ever do figure out a breakthrough, I'll be sure to post it.

Gatekeeper

	08-03-2004 02:40									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hmpfh.

Well, I just spent some time playing around with the RULES.TXT file again, to no avail. To wit:

1. Changing the "role" from naval superiority to sea transport literally changes a carrier into a transport, which means it can carry limitless air units plus as many ground units as the "hold" flag will allow (which I set to eight).

2. The carrier was still capable of transporting ground units even if its role was reverted back to naval superiority. I had to change the holds from eight to zero in combo with the role switch in order to get it back to its original role as a, well, aircraft carrier. One that could hold limitless aircraft and gunships, BTW (but that's already well-known).

3. The "flag" giving the carrier the ability to transport aircraft and gunships was activated during this procedure (and remains so, as to turn it off basically ruins the purpose of having a carrier in the first place).

Anyway, I think I'm just going to tweak the carrier's offensive/defensive numbers a bit (to 2a/8d), bring down its cost to 140 shields (versus 160) and leave it at that. If that doesn't work, well, then its something that's hard-coded and can't be messed with in the RULES.TXT file.

Gatekeeper

	08-03-2004 22:42									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

IIRC, the Carrier slot also has something to do with it. I don't think the AI has ever been made to use Carriers in any sort of intelligent way, but I think it does build them if you put the Carrier in a different unit slot.

	08-03-2004 23:26									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hmm. How does one go about chaning unit slots? I'm a bit leery of messing around with the RULES.TXT file to that degree. It's one thing to change numbers and letters, but quite another to cut and paste entire command lines, IMO.

Gatekeeper

	08-03-2004 23:46									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, as for the rules.txt, simply swapping two lines would do. Or copy the carrier line to one of the unused custom units at the end of the units list. But you'd also need to swap the images in the units.gif.

You can always make a backup...

	09-03-2004 02:22									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Give them some offensive punch -- say a 9 (just to see what happens.)

	09-03-2004 15:12									#10
	Suffering from ads?

What happens is that the AI builds them, but just uses them like a destroyer, rather than using them for carrying planes.

	09-03-2004 15:16									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

A genuine question - I see these late units so rarely I don't really understand them.

Does the AI need carriers, or do AI aircraft have infinite range like their missiles - or have I got that wrong too???

Stu again

	09-03-2004 18:14									#12
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits AI ... infinite range like their missiles... Stu again

Really? I suspected, but have never seen a thread on this...

	09-03-2004 20:30									#13
	Suffering from ads?

Load one of the latter-day saves from one of the recent SXN Games, Soupy Sales for example. Cheat, Reveal Map, Enter. Just watch how they move planes.

I noticed during the global warming tests I recently did that the AI air units followed the same rules we use. Missles do seem to come from nowhere, though.

Monk

	09-03-2004 21:45									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'll take your word for it, Monk. It's somewhat reassuring to know the AI follows our movement rules with planes. With some of the bomber attacks I just endured in Lazy summer, it made me wonder!

If what you say about missile attacks it true, then even the well-planned carrier mission (using an advance guard and onboard scout planes) becomes problematic. And that's a dirty shame, 'cuz it's a great way to cut up distant defenses.

(sigh) ...and I think there should be a reward for the amount of planning and execution required to make it happen.

	09-03-2004 22:21									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I wonder if the carrier/plane mix is reflected with a sub/missile mix -- have we seen evidence of ai subs carrying missiles?

	09-03-2004 23:45									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Mercatore Uno Well, as for the rules.txt, simply swapping two lines would do. Or copy the carrier line to one of the unused custom units at the end of the units list. But you'd also need to swap the images in the units.gif. You can always make a backup...

I've got backups of backups.

Anyway, I'm just going to leave it alone (though I might boost its offensive power just to see if the AI does build it) since I've already incorporated the custom units into the game, and have no wish to alter that (the AI makes *excellent* use of these units, BTW).

Gatekeeper

	09-03-2004 23:49									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

WRT to AI missiles, it's always been my impression that *any* AI-controlled unit or city can act as a missile base, even if its not "flagged" to do so. IOW, if there's an AI battleship off your coast, and its nearest cities are too far away for a missile attack, there could indeed be a missile attack anyway, due to the proximity of the AI battleship (or any other unit for that matter).

All that said, however, I think the AI does follow the rules for missiles, same as it does for aircraft. I *know* AI subs carry missiles (conventional *and* nuclear) 'cause I've found 'em off my coasts on occasion (I went looking 'cause I couldn't figure out at the time how Russia managed to take out a division of armor in North America with a cruise missile strike).

Gatekeeper

	10-03-2004 02:45									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hey, I'd like to keep the strategy forum open. I'm kind of attached to it. Let's put interesting questions like this one there, so people will keep using it, OK?

	10-03-2004 12:25									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

[lawyer mode]

Mr. Debeest. May I call you Mr. Debeest? Good. Anyway, Mr. Deebest, I feel that my thread fits quite nicely in the this forum, and unless a neighborhood mod sez otherwise, I think this thread can remain here. After all, it's just a general question, not stratergy, er, strategy per se. What? You disagree? Why, I'll have you know I have nukulear weapons!

Tip o the hat to ya, Mr. Deebest.

[/lawyer mode /Bush mode]

	10-03-2004 14:51									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

[MP mode]

I would like the house to take into their consideration the fact that Mr. Debeest has posted the same message in several different threads, and although we, the Hawk Party, are entirely behind his proposal, we feel that he could perhaps also take the step of advertising his beloved Strategy forum in his sig.

[/MP mode]

	10-03-2004 15:38									#21
	Suffering from ads?

I have to admit the guy is right, however.
I posted my "Making the most of Specials" thread here because I felt that Strat was kinda dead.
With hindsight this was a bad decision.

GateKeeper - should that not be [lorya mode]?
doy - what's the betting that 90% of the readership think MP stands for multi-player?

Stu

	10-03-2004 18:35									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well... it does.

	10-03-2004 23:47									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits GateKeeper - should that not be [lorya mode]? Stu

Heh. Lorya would probably fit if I knew what it meant.

And, for the record, I know that MP stands for member of parliament, at least it does in the UK. Purely game-speak, it means multi-players. Ah, gotta love the intricacies of the English language (and its various alphbet soups).

Gatekeeper

	11-03-2004 12:53									#24
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits doy - what's the betting that 90% of the readership think MP stands for multi-player? Stu

Even one English reader thought that until encouraged to engage brain.

Anyway, doy's contribution was so well put, that it was difficult to make the connection with Westminster

RJM at Sleeper's

	11-03-2004 14:05									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Why are you all talking about my entry into the Military Police in such a strange way?

Can someone just make a list with the threads that should be moved, and then PM (Police Militaire, for La Fayette ) it to Ming?

	11-03-2004 14:18									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Because the thread starter has to agree - after all they chose to post here - perhaps, unlike me, they had good reason.

Marco Polo

	11-03-2004 16:30									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

That's MPE, as well you know!

MP is marketplace!

(I remember Starlifter started to make a Civ 2 glossary at CFC, but that was a while ago. Is there anything similar at 'poly, or should we start one so that we can argue about what should stand for what? )