09-03-2004 20:53									#31
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Gotta go with Pottery. If we find someone soon who has it, minor loss. If we don't go for it and don't find someone who has it, big loss.

	09-03-2004 21:14									#32
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 War is futile without a good economy. Go for pottery and then lets race for Philo. By the time we get there we should be meeting some of our fellow Civ's and can start working deals. We are the only Comercial Civ with a chance for the Philo beeline. Being ahead in the tech race is nothing to sneeze at.

how the hell do you see that as getting ahead? writing is one of the most expensive techs we could possibly research, and we see no immediate gains from researching it. and then if we go for philosophy, and someone else gets it first, we are stuck with 2 largely useless technologies.

if we go for pottery, and then dive for philosophy, whilst the vikings jst dive for philosophy, we'd more than likely lose the race, and get screwed doing so.

we need WEAPONS. your precious hoplites will not save you from pillagers.

	09-03-2004 21:24									#33
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Gotta go with Pottery. If we find someone soon who has it, minor loss.

No, minor gain. The research cost will drop.

(as long as we meet them before we have completed the tech)

	09-03-2004 21:52									#34
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Good point BFM. I think I'm gunna go vote now.

	09-03-2004 22:18									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX how the hell do you see that as getting ahead? writing is one of the most expensive techs we could possibly research, and we see no immediate gains from researching it. and then if we go for philosophy, and someone else gets it first, we are stuck with 2 largely useless technologies. if we go for pottery, and then dive for philosophy, whilst the vikings jst dive for philosophy, we'd more than likely lose the race, and get screwed doing so. we need WEAPONS. your precious hoplites will not save you from pillagers.

First of all tone it down, I dont want any shouting matches around here.

You guys are talking like it is us against 4 other teams.

I dont see it that way. Three survive to move forward. The ones that survive are the ones that build a cooperative relationship with someone.

I agree weapons are important but so is cooperating with another CIV.

Just keep that in mind. I guarentee that if we dont hook up with someone in some type of cooperative relationship then we will lose this game.

	10-03-2004 00:40									#36
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 I guarentee that if we dont hook up with someone in some type of cooperative relationship then we will lose this game.

Well said.

	10-03-2004 00:57									#37
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True, however, I see the other teams taking "a good defense is a good offense" position as this is a game of survival. This is what I feel precludes a Philo gambit.

	10-03-2004 07:02									#38
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Looking at the post(s), I am pretty sure Pottery will win. So i voted for The Wheel !

The Wheel is pretty cheap (cost = 4). It allows us to find where the Horses are. With the relative flat terrain we have seen, there could be some horses nearby. Horsemen + Hoplite is a pretty good early defence for us. We don't have to worry about the "choking" strategy from F_P.

Charriot is a bit expensive to build (20 shields), but it has 2 movement and can be upgraded to Horse, Knight and Calvary. The 2 movements are good since we are using a Standard Map with only 5 teams.

	10-03-2004 07:29									#39
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I'm actually in agreement with Uber KruX about the desirability of perhaps going for Iron Working after Pottery.

I don't want to go for it because I think we'll need swordsmen that quickly (I think we can get by with hoplites and warriors, especiallly since they're CHEAPER, at that point in the game), but because ase Uber KruX correctly pointed out, knowing where the closest source of iron is and thus where we must expand is highly valuable.

So Pottery and then Iron Working doesn't sound so bad to me. The Philosophy gambit might be great, but then it might not pay off.

	10-03-2004 07:43									#40
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After some thought..........take out a IW vote and flop it to Pottery. You gentlemen have made some persuasive agruements

But IW better be the second one...

	11-03-2004 05:30									#41
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No one has mentioned the possibility of generating a SGL. By researching Pottery there is no chance. While I wouldn't want to base our research solely on the chance we might get an early SGL it should be considered in future research.

	11-03-2004 07:15									#42
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How about Pottery-->Wheel-->IW-->HBR

WHeel is much less tech to have to research, plus if gives us fast movers sooner. Even though they are just Chariots (1/1/2) they do move 2, can retreat and can upgrade as soon as we get HBR.


Also, if I'm thinking what is going to happen IS going to happen, getting IW sooner is not going to be advantagious, because of the Upgrade costs and the sheilds needed to build them. If we face an early war, it will be Archers/Spear/Warriors/Horsemen.

Also, could we have someone make a AU type PBEM senario, that is similar to the AU 101 (IIRC) game, where you have to take a city with all of the different unit types that you currently have available. Bonus for using a Warrior (which I had done in that game). This would be an interesting exersize for a few of us to play.

E_T

	11-03-2004 08:35									#43
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Also, could we have someone make a AU type PBEM senario, that is similar to the AU 101 (IIRC) game, where you have to take a city with all of the different unit types that you currently have available. Bonus for using a Warrior (which I had done in that game). This would be an interesting exersize for a few of us to play.

A very good idea. Everyone involved in the war planning should probably do this. It might also be nice to do some turn-based MP matches between our warriors with some trials like this.

	15-03-2004 00:17									#44
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Too late to vote, but if I had checked in time to vote I'd of voted pottery first, then either wheel or IW (don't care which).

I fully agree with conmcb25:

This game is NOT a free for all, there are going to be 3 winners and 2 losers. If the goal is not to be one of the two losers, then we need to do two things:

1) Make ourselves not a very attractive target. Hoplites are great for this so we already have a head start.
2) Make friends. There is a very good chance that the civs that lose will get ganged up on. The best thing we can do here is make deals and not always worry about purely coming out ahead. We need to tailor our research once we do make contact with deals in mind and be very, very pro-active in diplomacy. If we end up on a continent with two other civs, then ideally we'll setup a situation where one of the other two civs is the one left out in the cold.

I'm rambling a bit, but in any case I don't see IW as the key to our survival. I see lots of cities defended by lots of hoplites and diplomacy as the keys to our survival.