12-03-2004 23:38									#91
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So your choices are betwen two massive liars (one of whom is massively corrupt--Bush, the other just corrupt--Kerry) . . . and Nader.

	12-03-2004 23:43									#92
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So your choices are betwen two massive liars (one of whom is massively corrupt--Bush, the other just corrupt--Kerry) . . . and Nader.

Or, between someone who waffles versus a resolute man who decieves the people about his objectives to pass his extremist agenda, and a man with no real message running without a party and unable to make one themselves...

I will go with waffle man.

I like waffles-almost as good as pancakes.

	12-03-2004 23:49									#93
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Is it really a waffle? Sounds like a sane, rational evolution of opinion to me..

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/..._2003_1201.html

quote: We are a nation of laws and liberties, not of a knock in the night. So it is time to end the era of John Ashcroft. That starts with replacing the Patriot Act with a new law that protects our people and our liberties at the same time. I’ve been a District Attorney and I know that what law enforcement needs are real tools not restrictions on American’s basic rights. Much of what is in Patriot Act are good ideas. The Act increased penalties for terrorists, limited the statute of limitations for terrorist crimes, and allowed for greater prosecution of overseas acts against America. I fought to include important money laundering restrictions to clamp down on the cash flowing to terrorist enterprises. I had been pushing for these ideas since the late nineties – and after September 11th they were more important than ever. I voted for the Patriot Act right after September 11th – convinced that – with a sunset clause – it was the right decision to make. It clearly wasn’t a perfect bill – and it had a number of flaws – but this wasn’t the time to haggle. It was the time to act. But George Bush and John Ashcroft abused the spirit of national action after the terrorist attacks. They have used the Patriot Act in ways that were never intended and for reasons that have nothing to do with terrorism. That’s why, as President, I will propose new anti-terrorism laws that advance the War on Terror while ending the assault on our basic rights. This Administration has shown a pattern of abusing civil liberties. At this very moment, an FBI agent could be rifling through every website you’ve ever visited – and you would never know it. A Justice Department official in Washington could be reading every email you’ve sent in the last few months – and they wouldn’t need a judges permission or even a reason to do so. School librarians could be being placed under gag orders to keep them from speaking out. Federal investigators could be demanding and receiving upon request your private hospital medical records. Law enforcement officers could be entering your house while you are gone – rifling through your possessions – and leaving without every letting you know they had been there. While the Administration assures us that some of these things have not occurred, no one feels comfortable with these possibilities. It doesn’t take a cynic to wonder about how far George Bush and John Ashcroft will go. Many of the victims of the Bush Administration’s civil liberties violations are of Arab-descent – but our Constitution is color-blind. An assault on one person’s rights is an assault on this nation’s fabric and on all our rights. The Americans threatened when basic rights become treated as disposable are not just those from the Mid East. They’re Americans from the Midwest and all over our country. If I’m elected President, we will put an end to “sneak and peak” searches which permit law enforcement to conduct a secret search and seize evidence without notification. Agents can break into a home or business to take photos, seize property, copy computer files, or load a secret keystroke detector on a computer. These searches should be limited only to the most rare circumstances. And law enforcement should provide notice of the search within seven days, unless a court extends the period of notification. We will eliminate the potential of fishing expeditions into people’s library and business records. If the FBI wants to make these kinds of investigations, they will need a warrant issued by a judge and evidence that they are looking into an agent of a foreign power. We will provide Americans with protections from wiretaps, prevent local police officers from spying on innocent people, and that ensures our courts guarantee appropriate national security protections. At the same time, we need to strengthen the laws that actually do help us combat terrorism and keep America safe. This is some of the hard-work of fighting terrorism which the Administration has all too often failed to do. In the months leading up to September 11th, two of the hijackers were arrested for drunk driving -- and another was stopped for speeding and then let go even though he was the subject of an arrest warrant in a neighboring county and was on a federal terrorist watch list. Firefighters and law enforcement must have access to critical data so they can connect the dots. And we need to simplify and streamline the 58 national terrorist watch lists and make sure they’re available to the right people on the frontlines.

	12-03-2004 23:54									#94
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Any responsible person shouldn't have given Shrub and Ashcroft the powers of the Patriot Act in the first place. And he's saying absolutely nothing about eliminating the most onerous provision of the Patriot Act, legitimizing the indefinite detention of aliens.

	12-03-2004 23:55									#95
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I would not argue against a vote for Nadar on the grounds that he can't win, or that it would hurt or help another candidate that can win. What is the difference between a Bush vote in New York, a Kerry vote in the heartland, or a Nader vote anywhere? There is no difference. None of them are anything but a statement by the voter and I support the voter's voice.

Kerry appears to be making a huge political blunder. He needs to move to the right and start to court the moderate vote but instead he is trying to convince them that they blundered by voting for Bush last time. Won't work.

	12-03-2004 23:57									#96
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick instead he is trying to convince them that they blundered by voting for Bush last time. Won't work.

Actually, most of them didn't vote for Bush last time. In case you forgot, Bush was appointed, not elected.

	13-03-2004 00:07									#97
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Actually, most of them didn't vote for Bush last time. In case you forgot, Bush was appointed, not elected.

I don't think I said anything about most of the moderates, or most of the electorate. So, what is your point?

Do you think that Kerry should be courting the moderate vote? Do you think he is? Effectively?

	13-03-2004 00:19									#98
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Jac, thanks for the quote from Kerry on the Patriot Act. He is targeting the provisions that appear to be the most essential for detecting and preventing terrorist acts.

I only hope the media question him hard on this.

	13-03-2004 00:24									#99
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Yes. Clearly libraries are breeding grounds for terrorists. In fact, the 4th Amendment ought to be renamed the al-Qaeda Amendment.

	13-03-2004 00:28									#100
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Ned, are you really a liberal UCSC posing as an over the top, rabid conservative fanboy for a PhD or something?

	13-03-2004 00:35									#101
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Ramo, Bring it on Kerry. Show us how you are tough on terroism.

	13-03-2004 00:45									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Ramo, Bring it on Kerry. Show us how you are tough on terroism.

WtF does "tough on terrorism" mean?

BUsh does not seem to support mass executions of all muslims in the US and nuking Mecca-obviously he is not tough on terrorists, correct?

	13-03-2004 00:45									#103
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Well, there's an A-rab who's working with me on the Helimak at school. Since, he's clearly a terrorst (why else would an A-rab work with fusion reactor?), I'm going to invite him to my apartment and lock him in my closet until Lord Protector Ashcroft can pick him up.

	13-03-2004 00:46									#104
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Show me how the patriot act has been used to be tough on terrorism. I dont care about the whole smoke and mirrors, "behind the scenes results" bullshit excuses. I want to see results from the limiting of our civil liberties and invasion of our privacy.

and remember correlation and coincidence are NOT causation.

	13-03-2004 00:56									#105
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I were a terrorist, I think it would be great to have a US President whose response to the biggest terror act in American history was to invade a country that had nothing to do with it, and on trumped-up evidence as well. Just speculating.

	13-03-2004 05:38									#106
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 Show me how the patriot act has been used to be tough on terrorism. I dont care about the whole smoke and mirrors, "behind the scenes results" bullshit excuses. I want to see results from the limiting of our civil liberties and invasion of our privacy. and remember correlation and coincidence are NOT causation.

I have no problem with this so long as it does not compromise current investigations or prosecutions. I suspect that the congressional review of the Patriot Act will include testimony to the necessity of these provisions.

But it appears that Kerry has already called for the repeal of these provisions of the Patriot Act before having heard any testimony as to their necessity.

	13-03-2004 05:42									#107
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quote: Originally posted by uh Clem I were a terrorist, I think it would be great to have a US President whose response to the biggest terror act in American history was to invade a country that had nothing to do with it, and on trumped-up evidence as well. Just speculating.

Of course, Clem, we believe you when you were saying that you were just speculating. We really do.