12-03-2004 21:10									#1
	Intelligence Increase Your PM Length

Gather every bit of intelligence you can find here.

Observation:

PAL chose not to build their capital yet (deducted from the empty F11 screen).

They might be simply looking for a better place, like adjacent to a river since they are agricultural.

Edit by conmcb25 on 20 April 2004:
-BigFurryMonster and Orzmud have volunteered to assist
-Arnelos has volunteered to gather HUMINT now (May 04) and possibly work spreadsheets later if his commitments to other Demogames declines.


Edit by Kloreep on May 2nd 2004:
4000 BC-2470 (Turn 1-33) Saves

Edit by con: A must read for anyone who wants to understand the Civ Playing mindset of the PAL (MP) Team: Playing the Metagame, overarching MP strategies

Last edited by conmcb25 on 06-05-2004 at 21:10

	13-03-2004 02:19									#2
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Observation:

Panag is not on PAL's team.

	13-03-2004 08:57									#3
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I have received turn 2, but don't have time to load it before I go to work. Can anyone do an update on this? Did anyone found a city? What are our rankings?

	13-03-2004 09:07									#4
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Observation: Panag is not on PAL's team.

He's not even on Apolyton. did you see when he last posted?

Just after having told the aanswer of Apollo I have checked his profile and he's not posted for months.

Gives the answer of Apollo a creepy taste, doesn't it?

Aidun
Priest of Apollo

	13-03-2004 09:57									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Scores in our turn during 3950:
PAL 0
APO 25
BAT 0
GWT 0
CDG 25

PAL will no doubt rise above 0 with their founding of their capitol. Whether BAT and GWT start rising depends on whether they found this turn (they come after us in the turn order)

	13-03-2004 09:58									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Aidun did you see when he last posted?

18 November

We are almost at the 5 month anniversary of no panag!



Latest Intell posted in the Turn thread.

All the F11 stuff

PAL founded a city this turn and CDG founded one last turn.

BAT AND GWT did not founded cities last turn as well as PAL.

	13-03-2004 12:13									#7
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quote: GNP 4 million-ranked 2 Manufactored Goods-3 megatons-ranked 1

Some info we might be able to gleam from this little bit of intel:
We have a GNP of 4 and its ranked 2nd when there are but three cities founded. This means that either PAL or CDG (or both) has at least a GNP of 5. We get 3 from our city (on a river) and 1 from the cow (on a river). This means that either of them have a tile that they are working (founded on or otherwise) that has a bonus resource. I don't know what they are at the moment, cause I'm at work and don't have the civilopedia handy.

We will need to watch our population, GNP and Manufactured goods closely over the next 5 turns to get a better understanding of the initial layout of the other teams.

	13-03-2004 19:41									#8
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Yep Donegal, Klo and I were discussing that last night as well.

We figure they are both working some sort of bonus commerce tile.

We need our intell guys to disect this one for us, or at least begin the disection

	14-03-2004 05:44									#9
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As our population droped to second place, this means that PAL or CDG is working a grassland Cow or a grassland wheat. I suspect that both have a river.

Donegeal thinks for a moment.

What civ is PAL and CDG? If one is Agri, then it is possible that they are working a bonus commerce tile and get the bonus food from being next to a river.

	14-03-2004 05:51									#10
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Team Civ Leader Traits Color Time (GMT)
==================================================
==========================
PAL Maya Commander Ind,Agr Black 00:00 - 05:00
APO Greece Zeus Sci,Com Greek Green 00:00 - 06:00
BAT Sumeria Shulgi Sci,Agr Crimson 14:30 - 22:00
GWT China Web-Rin-Gen Mil,Ind China Blue 16:00 - 21:00
CDG Scandinavia Spammy Mil,Sea Light Blue 22:00 - 04:00

	14-03-2004 05:56									#11
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Yep Donegal, Klo and I were discussing that last night as well. We figure they are both working some sort of bonus commerce tile. We need our intell guys to disect this one for us, or at least begin the disection

Missed this earlier or I would have responded. I would suspect that CDG is the culprit and they do not even have to have a bonus commerce tile to work. Why? They are the only seafaring civ and if they settled on the coast as is likely (since there were not supposed to be too many tweaks of the map) then they automatically have an extra commerce point from their civ trait.

	14-03-2004 11:35									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal As our population droped to second place, this means that PAL or CDG is working a grassland Cow or a grassland wheat. I suspect that both have a river. Donegeal thinks for a moment. What civ is PAL and CDG? If one is Agri, then it is possible that they are working a bonus commerce tile and get the bonus food from being next to a river.

Funny, I brought up the exact same point in chat earlier when con asked about this.

	14-03-2004 14:21									#13
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Well then, one cookie for Arnelos then.

	16-03-2004 13:40									#14
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(pointed out by Togas):

Turn 6 Report: 3750bc
PAL's city is now at size 2. This only happened this turn, that means that their city (founded on turn 2) grew in 5 turns, telling us they have 4fpt coming in.


BFM: Shouldn't that be 6 - 2 = 4 turns?

	28-03-2004 08:55									#15
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CDG still has only their starting techs: Alphabet and Warrior Code.

We don't have Warrior Code. We do have Pottery and Bronze Working.

	28-03-2004 15:41									#16
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I'll bet CDG is going for Writing now and following up with Philosophy.

	28-03-2004 16:29									#17
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I am almost 100% sure they are doing the philo gambit.

Here is the evidence:
They are on a river.
They are seafaring and on the coast (Founded their city on turn one, and get an extra com from their city tile.).
They do not have any "new" techs by turn 16. This means they are going for one of the more expensive techs. The two most expensive techs they could research are Masonry and Writting. I see no reason to go for Masonry this early and we already announced to BOTH games that we were going for pottery first ( ).

	28-03-2004 17:21									#18
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I have been trying to determine what CDG has been up to using the info we have on them.

Founded city on turn 1 (after we did).
They have never had more than 3 spt production until around turn 15 (we have always been number one).
Population grows to size 2 on turn 15 (Someone please confirm. I have deleted all old copies of the save already.).
They have AT LEAST one Warrior (We can see him.).
They have AT MOST two Warriors (They are weak compared to us, and we only have three Warriors.).

With this info, I believe that this is their build queue:
Currah, Worker, Warrior, Warrior and building either a Warrior, Archer or Settler.

	28-03-2004 20:43									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal Population grows to size 2 on turn 15 (Someone please confirm. I have deleted all old copies of the save already.). They have AT LEAST one Warrior (We can see him.).

Yes, on turn 15 they reached size 2.

	28-03-2004 20:55									#20
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Ok, so that means that they had produced either 40 surplus food in 15 turns (if they did build a worker) or 20 surplus food.

This means that they were producing +2f for 5 turns and +3 for 10.

-or-

+1f for 10 turns and +2f for 5.

They have undoutedly done some WF switching.

	29-03-2004 01:43									#21
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I guess it is the second option
this means
10 turns +3 shields and 5 turns +2 shields.
If their worker has created tile with +2f, +2s they could grow faster in size.

	29-03-2004 12:28									#22
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Shield production is a little bit more difficult to predict.

With food, we have a set number that is well known that they need to reach in order to grow.

We don't know how many shields they produced. It may well actually be more than us even though we have always had the highest production. Throw in a simple tree chopping and bingo, they have it.

I think we will need to watch how our military compares to them closely in the next few turns as I believe they will produce a third warrior very soon.

	31-03-2004 05:55									#23
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For the first turn in the game, we are now 2nd in points.

We have 73
PAL has 76

They are the ones who have founded their second city.

	31-03-2004 21:20									#24
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We know from the chat, that CDG had built a Curraugh, so they have used 15 sheilds for that.

E_T

	01-04-2004 20:49									#25
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What are the stats for Curraugh? Is it a unique unit?

	01-04-2004 20:54									#26
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It is not an UU. It's stats are:

15 shields
Avail w/ Alphabet
1.1.2
Upgrade to Galley

	01-04-2004 21:24									#27
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Its three movement for CDG because they are seafaring.

Im not sure but I dont think any other stat is changed for seafaring civs.

	07-04-2004 21:29									#28
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Some more intel. Here is a picture of the possible positions for CDG's warrior. If he moved due North they know about the ivory. We'll know more info on the direction taken when we see their warrior again.

The numbers represent the turn #. Since they move last they could actually have seen the ivory on turn 20 if they automatically moved to the mountain.

If on turn 23 we see the warrior near our capital's boundry we know that have not seen the ivory.

	07-04-2004 22:28									#29
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If we see them on turn 23, we are going to have to explain why we are to their west and not the north.

	08-04-2004 12:18									#30
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Damn, this continent has a intresting layout. All the good land is east. But if we settle that we have corned CDG in the south east, how will they feel about that?
Maybe this continent is to small for two nations?