13-03-2004 21:18									#31
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I think that everyone has made their case. I'd just go ahead and get both of them, but I already did!

	13-03-2004 22:57									#32
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I haven't played KOTOR yet, but I plan to relatively soon.

...that said, If I was you I'd still check out BG2 first, since you can get it cheaper, it will also allow you to see whether you enjoy the AD&D world. That way if you do like it, than you can find many other good cRPGs which are in the same type of setting.

	13-03-2004 23:01									#33
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BG 2 is better than Kotor. Buy BG2

	14-03-2004 00:38									#34
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BG2 is definately better imho.

One is a fantasy game with swords, axes, maces, and spells. BG2 if it isn't obviuos.

The other is based in the Star Wars universe and has blasters, ion guns, lightsabers, and swords again . Being based off the D&D engine for NWN, you will find melee weapons such as blades, swords, and lightsabers to be superior weapons. Blasters just don't have a long enough range. And sometimes doing physical damage is better than doing energy damage.

BG2 has orcs, dwarves, and elves.

KOTOR has wookies, those fish creature things, and various other races.

BG2 is 3rd person perspective
Kotor is 1st persion perspective.

BG2 allows you main character and with up to 5 NPC's to party with you along with a limit of 5 (I think) summoned creatures.

KOTOR (and NWN HOTU expansion) allows 2 henchman to travel with you. You can control them yourself if you switch characters, but often I just let them do their own thing.

BG2 is more strategic. So if you like strategic battles, BG2 is superior. Some of the battles require more thought.

In KOTOR I often just clicked on master flurry all the time. The battles didn't involve a lot of thought except for maybe the final battle.

	14-03-2004 02:32									#35
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keep in mind he ain't looking for the best game, he's looking for the best to start out with. I tried starting out RPGs with Wizardry 8 needless to say I could never figure out why I kept dying; I had a group of huge lizardmen with giant axes and the best armor! None of that sissy magic using crap, psh. They could cleave a man in two!!! ( if they could ever hit them anyway. )

edit: Wizardry 8 is the best rpg Ive ever played but I hated it when I first played it. My point, the best rpg is not always the best to begin with

	14-03-2004 02:40									#36
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If I was to pick only one, it would really come down to just MorrowWind, and Knight of the Old Republic.
I would definitely have to say try KOTOR.
KOTOR is the game that got me into RPG's, and I got my friend hooked too, via KOTOR. KOTOR is a big game, but it isn't too big, kinda like Morrowiwnd is, where you feel like it will take you half a decade to complete the entire game under one file.
Plus, Morrow Wind has the whole 'Lucid Dream' feel as Space05us(or however it is spelled) siad in another thread. Iti s probably better to go into a game that has more of a 'normal feel' for an introductory rpg.
Soyeah, buy an XBOX, and with it buy KOTOR. You can probably sell the free game that comes with the XBOX, and then use that money to get a better price on KOTOR.

	14-03-2004 02:44									#37
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Couldn't GTA 3, or Vice City, sort of end up qualifying as an RPG? It sort of is one, isn't it? Just in a modern, or semi modern setting.

	14-03-2004 03:06									#38
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GTA is more of an adventure game, which is also where I'd put the Final Fantasy-esque console RPGs. The story is fixed (I think, some things might be optional in GTA) and so the character develops on a single track.

In RPGs there is supposed to be greater freedom of choice for the player, so that even if the goal is unchanged, ways of achieving it and how moral or ethical you are, are up to you.

But yeah, GTA does have RPG elements in it.

	14-03-2004 03:10									#39
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Do you guys thnk that it would be cool if GTA became more of an rpg, or should it stay in the current format. I think they should release multiple GTA titles at the same time. One that is more of an RPG, and one that is more of the smae.

	14-03-2004 03:29									#40
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If GTA had a more RPG feel, it'd be a vastly superior game. Of course, people in hell want ice water.

	14-03-2004 04:58									#41
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I am currently working my way through KOTOR. If you are a fan of Star Wars, it is worth playing. Player Morrowind and BG2 and could not get more then halfway though either of them before getting bored with them, probably will try BG2 again to see if I can get further along. Wizardry 8 was fun to play and worth getting to the end.

	14-03-2004 05:04									#42
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KOTOR is actually goos regardless of Star Wars fanatacism. That's why it won lots of awards, and critical acclaim. Cae in point, the ever prestigious Spike TV Video Game Award for best RPG( more like the corporate payoff awards. Some of the games nominated weren't even out yet.) But it did win other awards. Like the more prestigious Penny-Arcade.com award. That one is serious.

	14-03-2004 05:07									#43
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quote: If GTA had a more RPG feel, it'd be a vastly superior game. Of course, people in hell want ice water.

But everybody wants to go to heaven, even the Satanists secretly want to.

	14-03-2004 05:48									#44
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Actually, by that context, wouldn't people playing RPG's be in hell too? If heaven is the ultimate ideal, and GTA/RPG was to be the heaven, then you yourself would be in hell too.

	14-03-2004 07:15									#45
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Because they don't want to create a game that's set in half-assed world featuring talking elephants and monkey-people?

Any experienced RPG'er can create a better system than D&D in a week or 2. Not to mention all the existing systems that are superior to it. I said lazy because it's easier to implement D&D. You're Choatic Evil? Well har har, you just attack anything on sight.

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Baldur's Gate is a quality game - there's nothing lazy about it.

I don't see what's the big deal with Baldur's Gate, really.

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd And the Forgotten Realms is an excellent setting for any RPG.

There are far superior settings out there.

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd That's what it is, you know. A setting. It's detailed enough that it can have hundreds of books, games, and anything else made around it and still be a consistent, immmersive, world.

I must say the Discworld setting is way, way superior to Forgotten Realms, dispite the numerical superiority the latter has.

	14-03-2004 07:17									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Never, and I mean never, will you see a game with that much content again . They just don't seem to make games that large anymore (though Morrowind was fairly large).

Play in a p-n-p RPG campaign if you want content.

	14-03-2004 10:05									#47
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Oh, and to join late, BG2 is a better game than KOTOR. BG2 is one of the best RPGs in computer gaming history. I'd only put the 'Fallout' games above it. BG2 is massive, has many people you can put in your party (good interaction between them), different ways of accomplishing quests, some decent moral dilemmas, and a large, in depth, fun world.

	14-03-2004 10:22									#48
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Planescape Torment is the best RPG of the 90s. Go for it, you won't be disappointed.

	14-03-2004 11:17									#49
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My pick is Wizardry 6 - 8. The best RPG series ever.

On a computer, that is

	14-03-2004 11:45									#50
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Both are fine games, but KOTOR is definitely more accessible, and the moral choices are more fun in it. Lots of very fun situations with multiple ways to solve 'em, much more so than BG2. Be warned that you'll need a ninja computer; mine is pretty good, and I couldn't take advantage of some of the higher resolutions without slowdown.

I must say the Discworld setting is way, way superior to Forgotten Realms, dispite the numerical superiority the latter has.

From a literary perspective? Maybe. From a gameplay perspective? No way. Discworld is not exactly a "balanced" setting (lots of world-changing magic & stuff around that people are too crazy/dumb to use), and would be better grounds for a graphic adventure than an RPG.

Jamski: You're in error on KOTOR. You get quite a bit more than "one companion."

	14-03-2004 11:55									#51
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KOTOR!!!!!

	14-03-2004 13:45									#52
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Planescape is worth a look, but not for a beginnner.

I think we have figured out the best game to get into rpg's with.

KOTOR. The rules are fairly simple. It's a snap to learn.

	14-03-2004 13:50									#53
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KOTOR for the new RPGer

	14-03-2004 15:25									#54
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how much is it ? kotor tha tis ?

	14-03-2004 15:45									#55
	GET KOTOR! HERE'S WHERE AND HOW MUCH $$$ Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Amazon currently has it for $45, on XBOX, but they're out of stock currently on the comp.
If you go to the official site, they have it for 29.95 on XBOX, and 49.95 on the PC. plus they're giving away a free lightsabre letter opener with every purchase.(boy aren't I the regular corporate pawn ]

Lucas Arts Site

	14-03-2004 18:10									#56
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quote: Originally posted by SnowFire Be warned that you'll need a ninja computer

Good job I have one then. I need to play something to put it through its paces actually.

Ok I'll play both after seeing the recommendations here. Whichever gets here first will win.

	14-03-2004 21:16									#57
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Good move Doc. Both are good games. Kotor is just easier to get into for a first RPG.

	14-03-2004 22:16									#58
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And then BG2 is harder to get OUT of.

Good move though Wish I had the cash to say "get both"

-Jam

	14-03-2004 23:26									#59
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Lazy? And the Forgotten Realms is an excellent setting for any RPG. That's what it is, you know. A setting. It's detailed enough that it can have hundreds of books, games, and anything else made around it and still be a consistent, immmersive, world.

I'm sick and tired of the Forgotten Realms. I'm sick and tired of godamned elves, orcs and trolls. Bring back Planescape: Torment soon! Or Fallout!

	14-03-2004 23:32									#60
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo I'm sick and tired of the Forgotten Realms. I'm sick and tired of godamned elves, orcs and trolls. Bring back Planescape: Torment

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't planescape connected to the Forgotten realms? (ie. the planar worlds)