13-03-2004 08:58									#1
	Have Tax Collectors been made obsolete? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

As I understand it, one beaker is simply one gold devoted to science. If this is the case, and an empire had enough specialists and, say for a round number, 3000 total income, couldn't the same effect as 150 taxmen (300 gold) be generated by 100 scientists (300 beakers) and a -10% bump on the science slider, thus producing the 300 gold and leaving 50 specialists to either become workers or generate additional revenue/shields/corruption fighting? Rough model, I know, but just thinking big picture off the top of my head here on something I'm sure was discussed upon the release of C3C.

Granted, most empires won't have enough specialists to make up 10% of total income in research (I don't think), and they may have added a beaker<->gold modifier in C3C (though I'm unaware of one if they did, and don't believe this is the case), so tax collectors aren't "never use them" obsolete, even if my first paragraph is true. If true, though, this does introduce some interesting, and elegant, potential variations on specialist usage, especially if one has a half dozen or so conquered metros sitting around not producing. Not that the introduction of engineers and policemen didn't do that already, mind you.

	13-03-2004 09:30									#2
	Suffering from ads?

As you say, the 3 beakers (3 commerce) a scientist adds per turn may not have an effect, whereas the 2 gold (2 commerce) tax collectors always will have an effect.

So if you have masses of specialists, it may be best to use scientists and lower the slider/speed research. However, if it's only a few specialists in the whole empire and you don't want to use them as non-commerce specialists, tax collectors have a use.

	15-03-2004 09:23									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Scientists are powerful, but they don't make the taxman obsolete. There are many instances when making all specialists scientists won't affect the research time or allow you to lower the slider. As you and Kloreep noted, gold is fungible and always makes it to the treasury; excess science beakers (and scientists) are wasted if not used properly.

I've found scientists most useful in the early game (when a few scientists can make a real difference due to low tech costs and relatively unimproved cities), and sometimes in the later game if your micromanagament tolerance allows you to use them effectively (when many corrupt cities can be irrigated and "scientist'd" to produce a large amount of beakers). I don't mean to give scientists short shrift in the middle game, but the micromanagement required to use them efficiently is often more than I will bear, meaning a default to taxmen produces some real benefit, though less than scientists might, but relieves me of significant micromanagement tasks.

Catt

	18-03-2004 09:26									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If you have enough extra populace to even consider using this startegy, then you probaly are already reasearching at the 4-5 tech/turn before converting them to scientists, so what is the point? Make the guys taxmen and let the gold flow!

	18-03-2004 10:52									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber If you have enough extra populace to even consider using this startegy, then you probaly are already reasearching at the 4-5 tech/turn before converting them to scientists, so what is the point? Make the guys taxmen and let the gold flow!

To make 150% of the gold flow, obviously.

I started thinking along these lines during a big lategame war while I was starving the cities and resistance down. In PTW, naturally, I made every citizen a tax collector (now who they took the taxes from, I have no idea). When I started clicking on them this time, I remembered the scientist change. With several enemy metros in hand, I could see it working, but that's about the only time I can think of for that kind of mass specialization. As it were, I wound up finding engineers much more useful in cities with resistance, since my first priority in late wars is always to get to the first culture ring and close some of those rail lines into my newly acquired territory, freeing up infantry so I can widen my perimeter and keep conquering.

If I ever found my empire with enough of my own citizens to use this, I'd be searching for that little worker who accidentally got automated and started irrigating all my mines, and kicking myself for not finding him MUCH earlier.

	18-03-2004 12:30									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Solomwi .....If I ever found my empire with enough of my own citizens to use this, I'd be searching for that little worker who accidentally got automated and started irrigating all my mines, and kicking myself for not finding him MUCH earlier.