13-03-2004 22:13									#1
	Will Peace Survive the Turn? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I post this as a purely speculative thread.

Other than through diplomatic efforts, we have no control over the outcome of things. I do not think any diplomatic efforts on our, or anyone elses part, will sway CyCon from doing what it wants.

Things are chancy for Peace.

They have just one, pop 1, base on the interior of a medium island, not on the coast, garrisoned with one rover.

The nearest CyCon base in a Sea Base about 3 squares away. I do not know what is garrisoned there. Nor, do we know what CyCon units are within striking distance of the sole remaining Peace base.

Conshelf57 has no garrison. Peace has a schooner 2 squares away from it. We have a needlejet on top of the schooner, making the schooner invulnerable to all but a well coordinated suicide attack by CyCon.

Peace's turn is before the Data Angels. It should be able to occupy Conshelf57 before a new DA unit is built there.

The Dangers for Peace:
1. Potential that CyCon has two units (at least one a ground unit) that can reach Peace's base. I was thinking a rover and a needlejet. The needlejet empties the Peace. The rover lands on the island and rolls into the base.

2. Potential that CyCon has only one unit that can reach Peace. This unit attacks and kills the Peace rover garrisoning the last base, and in the process reduces the population to zero, killing the last Peace base. Maybe Peace would have been better off not keeping the rover in the base.

3. Potential that CyCon (or Uni) or Miriam occupy Conshelf57 before Peace does. This will mean that Peace cannot take the base this turn, and if the base is captured by anything other than a probe action, the pop will drop to 1, making it impossible for Peace to take the base and not kill it with anything other than a probe. Peace does not have a probe. We do not know what is in the waters, west and southwest, of Conshel57.

I'm not offering odds, but do we have some prospective bookmakers within the Hive who want to?


Mead

	13-03-2004 23:39									#2
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Don't especially want to create odds. There are simply too many factors at play that we can't really figure or may not even know about. We just have to and see.

If they survive, wonderful. If not, we did what we could.

	14-03-2004 07:09									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Don't especially want to create odds. There are simply too many factors at play that we can't really figure or may not even know about. We just have to and see. If they survive, wonderful. If not, we did what we could.

True.

We are hoping they survive. We have spilt much Hive Blood and spent Hive substantial treasuer in fighting to ensure their survival.

But what are the odds of their survival? (why?)

What happens if they do survive?

What happens if they don't survive?

Mead

	14-03-2004 11:48									#4
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My understanding of the issue is that there is one thing left that PEACE can provide us:

A vote in Planetary Council motions such as raising/lower sea levels, U.N. Charter restrictions, the planetary trade agreement, etc, etc, etc.

Other than that, I suppose the only reason to save them is moral support.

	14-03-2004 18:55									#5
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Well, the vote and the moral support are both nice to have.

I hope people realise that the game will crash if PEACE lose thier last base to another faction.

They need to self-destruct it to avoid this.

-Jam

	14-03-2004 19:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Well, the vote and the moral support are both nice to have. I hope people realise that the game will crash if PEACE lose thier last base to another faction. They need to self-destruct it to avoid this. -Jam

I remember Tass saying something like this.

He said that Peace will have to self destruct once it became obvious that they were lose. If Peace refused to self-destruct then he or Googlie would do the destruction.

Tass or Googlie said if Peace was killed (not self destructed) the way the game is set up, the Drones would lose their turn.


Mead

	14-03-2004 22:28									#7
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I just made a thread about this in general so that they have no excuse not to have seen it.

The survival of PEACE is now guarneteed.

-Jam

	15-03-2004 21:08									#8
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For me, moral support is the main reason. Their vote is nice but we can do without. However I would like to see PEACE standing up as an independent faction. As Arnelos said, if the fate is less favorable then we hoped, at least we have done all we could.

	16-03-2004 06:37									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Unless Peace agrees to be a client state of CyCon it will die, quickly.

I'm afraid I already know the answer, but can you upgrade a transport to something else, like a schooner.


Mead

	16-03-2004 06:50									#10
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I support PEACE's survival for the reasons that

1) A Treaty with them gives us more creds

2) They have planetary votes that we may need.

3) That's one more faction that can help us out if we need help

4) They need our help

5) The CyCon are being the "bully on the playground" and they need to be taught a lesson in humility.

I'm hoping PEACE will survive, if not, I salute their fallen mariners.

	16-03-2004 07:00									#11
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It looks like CyCon just killed Peace's schooner, destroying any real chance of their survival.

Do we ask Peace for their remaining techs, now before they die?

Mead

	16-03-2004 07:49									#12
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We could have stationed our needlejet sse of the transport and our 2-2-4 foil se of the transport. This would have kept the CyCon cruiser away from the schooner.

But this would have made the schooner vulnerable to air attack.

Peace should not have moved their schooner so far that our foil could not keep up.

I did not see it coming.

I myself suggested our ships hanging back providing a rear guard action.

Mead

	16-03-2004 07:55									#13
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Well......what's done is done.

Is there even a slight chance that PEACE can still survive?

Regardless, CPU is going down. First the 'U', then the 'C'. Hopefully when the Drones attack, they'll feel the squeeze and leave PEACE alone.

	16-03-2004 08:11									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Well......what's done is done. Is there even a slight chance that PEACE can still survive? Regardless, CPU is going down. First the 'U', then the 'C'. Hopefully when the Drones attack, they'll feel the squeeze and leave PEACE alone.

That's what I was hoping, but know I think it is too late. With how weak Peace is, it would not take much in the way of CyCon resources to kill its last base.


Mead

	16-03-2004 08:22									#15
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Hmmmm,

Well I think its obvious that CyCon knows we're going to attack them. Hopefully the Drones can blindside them while they are scrambling with trying to fend us both off. I'm thinking that even if CPU can empty out PEACE's last base, they will need ground units to take it over.

If we can just prevent the CPU from landing near their last base, there's a slim chance that PEACE can hold out while they evacuate.

Simply put, don't blame yourself on what you did or could have done, it's the CyCon who broke the cease-fire and it's them whose trying to justify their actions by trying to place blame on us for attacking the CP.

	16-03-2004 14:36									#16
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The CyCon have admitted to a certain "bloodlust" concerning the elimination of PEACE, so... we should be braced for the worst.

-Jam

	17-03-2004 06:06									#17
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Not having done this before I am wondering.


Can we probe rescue Peace from CyCon's HQ later in the game?


Regardless of that how soon can we (are we allowed to) welcome Peace refugees into our forum and team?


Mead

	17-03-2004 13:35									#18
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It can't be done in a PBEM, sadly.

We should let them in straight away, I guess.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 02:20									#19
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I'm feeling very bad about what happens to PEACE. In fact I feel that I cannot face them. We have had many chances to save them. First if I took Mead's advice of taking out the CC probe ship then they would already have a base now. Then I fail to communicate to them our plan in time and then I fail to protect them the last turn. I would personally try the hardest to try to save them, like taking the two Roze bases and try to fly a couple planes to their last base if ever possible. However it is not the team's obligation to do that I suppose.

I would hope PEACE members will be able to forgive me for my incompetance and inexperience. And if they choose to come to our team I am for welcoming them right away.

	18-03-2004 02:47									#20
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What the PEACE won't forgive is the Hive attacking the CyCon, the turn after it is surely too late to save PEACE any more.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 03:40									#21
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Actually I've told them that we are planning to attack Uni at 2160 our turn, in the PM after their CP is captured by CC. (It should be in the PEACE thread.) So I don't think they will be mad at this at all. And I believe what they are trying to do (peace talk with CCs and all) is trying to pursuade CCs not to attack them so they can last till then. However CCs are just too mean to let them live.

	18-03-2004 03:47									#22
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I'm not sure. I think if we all pull togther we can get the CyCon to agree a peace deal that protects PEACE. We kind of owe it to them, I feel, because we sat by while their whole faction was demolished before we said anything.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 03:52									#23
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Now are you suggesting we stop the brainwave action?

	18-03-2004 03:54									#24
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As HongHu well knows :
The Drones are the true danger
To the Human Hive.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 03:55									#25
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Psst. The Drones are less dangerous than you are.

	18-03-2004 03:57									#26
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I pose no danger -
As a kitten sheaths her claws
So I speak with you.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 03:57									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You are free to push your opinions about the Drones, but the remained of the Human Hive are in disagreement with you over this. Back in the days of Kody it was the CyCon who became hostile toward us, in fact if I recall correctly Kody and HongHu were their biggest supporters and were pushing for cooperation with the CyCon, the CyCon alienated both of them. I have always taken a prudent stance toward this, but since we’re going to war with the CyCon a little drama will do no harm. I do not see the point in trying to build up relations when we will be attacking the University this coming turn.

	18-03-2004 04:00									#28
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He is simply trying to be evil while not very successful, but managed to look silly. So I propose we ignore him Chairman.

	18-03-2004 04:13									#29
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How am I the one trying to be evil? I am the one who pushes that to "good" factions unite against the evil Drones, and I will never trust them.

Buster and his band have deliberately played the RP factions for fools the whole game long

While tigers argue
The sleeping jackal holds back
To eat from the scraps.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 06:13									#30
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While I would have to admit that in the "old days" I was in the same camp as Comrade Jamski (wary of the Drones) I belive that now is the time to put away paranoia's about them and focus on the CPU.

Attack the CPU with great force, but keep a few units in check just in case the Drones decide to do anything "funny".