13-03-2004 23:07									#1
	Alternate player colours for 1.2 beta Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

[EDIT] Netscape does not seem to show the colours below IE does however[/EDIT]
[EDIT]Everyone should now see the correct colours below

0		0		0
1		1		1
2		2		2
3		3		3
4		4		4
5		5		5
6		6		6
7		7		7
8		8		8
9		9		9
10		10		10
11		11		11
12		12		12
13		13		13
14		14		14
15		15		15
16		16		16
		17		17
		18		18
		19		19
		20		20
		21		21
		22		22
		23		23
		24		24
		25		25
		26		26
		27		27
		28		28
		29		29
		30		30
		31		31
		32		32

Last edited by Flinx on 14-03-2004 at 01:01

	13-03-2004 23:09									#2
	Put an end to popups!

where did the attachment go?

oh well, here it is

Attachment: colors00.txt
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	13-03-2004 23:33									#3
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From a look on the color table I must say, it is even wrose then the original :

-Martin

Attachment: colors.jpg
This has been downloaded 129 time(s).

	13-03-2004 23:41									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ok I know how to fix the colours so that they will show up in Netscape correctly, it's just going to take a while...

	14-03-2004 01:17									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann From a look on the color table I must say, it is even wrose then the original : -Martin

Even now that the correct colours (should) appear above, I make no claim that my colour choices are better, just that they are (mostly) different.

Just as an aside , in the playtest version, colours 7 & 19, 14 & 30, and 16 & 20 are very similar and might lead to confusion in-game; also the number of units in a stack is shown in white in-game and are not readable against playtest colours 6 & 9

	14-03-2004 02:20									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Flinx also the number of units in a stack is shown in white in-game and are not readable against playtest colours 6 & 9

And when I change it from white to black I have the problem with other colors. I never noticed the problem with yellow although I use it for years.

And red must be available as player color.

-Martin

	14-03-2004 10:51									#7
	Remove this text

I've been working on my own colors.txt file as well, since I shared Flinx's criticism regarding the similar and unreadable colours in the playtest. It was originally intended for personal use, but I don't mind sharing:

I'm fairly satisfied with the colours, though I feel the order could use some rearranging (but that's a very minor point really).

Players (as much as possible) sorted by colour:

28	13	4
9	1	19
14	20	22
24	11	16
3	0	29
30	10	25
17	12	8
15	31	5
18	2	26
23	21	27
32	7	6

Attachment: colors00.txt
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	14-03-2004 16:55									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I must admit that after having reloaded my current game I prefer Locutus' colors though my opinion is biased as I have a real soft point for the blue color...

As far as I am concerned I like barabarians to have the red color, they are thus easier to identify and to spot on the map.

I agree that the order could be rearranged but it boils down to players' preferences and it will be very difficult to reach a common ground.

IMO the best solution would be to allow the human player to choose the color of each civilization in play at the start of the game. But I suppose that it is certainly not the easiest one as it implies some coding. One could also add that this is certainly not a priority.

Last edited by Tamerlin on 14-03-2004 at 17:05

	14-03-2004 21:03									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus I've been working on my own colors.txt file as well, since I shared Flinx's criticism regarding the similar and unreadable colours in the playtest.

Similarity? Your color 6 and 27 are very similar. And also 1, 20 and 22 are very similar, in that case I could use the original Barbarian red for the Barbarians.

And unreadability? Open the chat screen and see what player 14 does or say. It is dark gray on black the problem that made me change the Barbarian color from black to another red again.

28	13	4
9	1	19
14	20	22
24	11	16
3	0	29
30	10	25
17	12	8
15	31	5
18	2	26
23	21	27
32	7	6

	14-03-2004 22:26									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And again all the colors in one table on a black background with white font. Players are sorted by number. I would post both tables in one post if some more characters per post would be allowed.

0	1	2		0	1	2		0	1	2		0	1	2
3	4	5		3	4	5		3	4	5		3	4	5
6	7	8		6	7	8		6	7	8		6	7	8
9	10	11		9	10	11		9	10	11		9	10	11
12	13	14		12	13	14		12	13	14		12	13	14
15	16			15	16	17		15	16	17		15	16	17
				18	19	20		18	19	20		18	19	20
				21	22	23		21	22	23		21	22	23
				24	25	26		24	25	26		24	25	26
				27	28	29		27	28	29		27	28	29
				30	31	32		30	31	32		30	31	32

Last edited by Martin Gühmann on 14-03-2004 at 22:34

	14-03-2004 22:29									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

Part two, colors on a white background, with black font. The colors at the left are the original colors, the colors in the middle left are my colors, the colors in the middle right are Flinx' colors and the colors in the right are Locutus colors.

0	1	2		0	1	2		0	1	2		0	1	2
3	4	5		3	4	5		3	4	5		3	4	5
6	7	8		6	7	8		6	7	8		6	7	8
9	10	11		9	10	11		9	10	11		9	10	11
12	13	14		12	13	14		12	13	14		12	13	14
15	16			15	16	17		15	16	17		15	16	17
				18	19	20		18	19	20		18	19	20
				21	22	23		21	22	23		21	22	23
				24	25	26		24	25	26		24	25	26
				27	28	29		27	28	29		27	28	29
				30	31	32		30	31	32		30	31	32

Last edited by Martin Gühmann on 14-03-2004 at 22:35

	14-03-2004 23:27									#12
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How about leaving the first 8 colours as they are? You can do with the rest what you want though.

quote: And unreadability? Open the chat screen and see what player 14 does or say. It is dark gray on black the problem that made me change the Barbarian color from black to another red again.

Thats not really a problem. The only players that need good readability against black background are (at most) players 0-4, we can see their chat messages, and 0 for general messages using the barb colour.

	15-03-2004 00:17									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Similarity? Your color 6 and 27 are very similar. And also 1, 20 and 22 are very similar, in that case I could use the original Barbarian red for the Barbarians.

6 and 27 are clearly distinguishable in the game, even if they may look somewhat similar in the HTML tables.

As for the blue colours, certainly in-game (but also in the tables) there's no problem between the colours you mention: 20 is clearly light blue while 22 is clearly purple (or violet or whatever I called it in the colors.txt file). Colour 1 is quite clearly a much darker shade of blue. If there's any problem with the blue colours, it's between 1 and 13. You can still see the difference there, but it's not as good as with the other colour schemes posted here. This is because in the colour schemes you, Flinx and Activision used, dark blue is hard to find back on the minimap (that is, with only land/water display enabled; when displaying the terrain types almost all civs are hard to find back), something which I hate 'cause I use that map all the time to locate civs/cities/units. My dark blue (13) is easier to find back and clearly distinguishable from bright blue (1) on the minimap, though it's slightly harder to tell apart from that same colour on the main map -- a sacrifice I'm willing to live with as one of those colours is the default human colour anyway, so you can't accidentally attack the wrong civ or anything

quote: And unreadability? Open the chat screen and see what player 14 does or say. It is dark gray on black the problem that made me change the Barbarian color from black to another red again.

As Maq pointed out, only for the first 4 (in the future maybe 8) civs does the chat screen matter, and in my setup at least that shouldn't be a problem. In all other places the colour to contrast with is very light (either white or pale yellow/brownish or similar), in which case the colour schemes of Flinx and me work better than the one in the playtest version.

	15-03-2004 01:22									#14
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Update: hmm, I think I just solved my 'blue' problem by giving color 1 and color 20 a tad (0x40/64) more green and red respectively: that made both those colours slightly lighter, and easier to distinguish from both each other and #13 and #22. Colour 1 looks a slightly off now (not unlike the new links-colour here on Apolyton ) but I think I could get used to it, especially since it fits nicely with the new pure-red barbarian colour as well.

	16-03-2004 02:04									#15
	Summarising and Suggesting a Compromise. Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

People can (and will) individually come up with their own colors00.txt with their 32 most favourite colours if they choose.

That said however, the version supplied with the playtest/patch should probably conform to the following points so that it is functional for everyone:
Player colours should be different and distinguishable from each other on the main map.
Player colours should be different and distinguishable from each other on the mini map in land/water mode (all terrain mode is too cluttered to worry about).
The barbarian colour should standout (i.e. more than just different and distinguishable) on the mini map. (How about a flashing “There be barbarians here” arrow? )
Number of units in a stack must be readable against player colours.
Player colours and barbarian colour must be readable on the multi-player chat screen.

In addition, how the ability to choose your player colour (in single-player mode only?) is implemented could suggest additional criteria: e.g.
The player should be able to choose (at least one) version of the major colours: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, and brown.

....Flinx runs for cover

	16-03-2004 14:14									#16
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My 2 cents:

1.) Babarians shall have the nice ugly bright red, so that you just can't miss them (The arrow might be a nice add on )

2.) Players choosing their colour: Completly free, or from a pre-given table (which I think would be easier to implement).

3.)

quote: Player colours should be different and distinguishable from each other on the main map. Player colours should be different and distinguishable from each other on the mini map in land/water mode (all terrain mode is too cluttered to worry about).

Agreed

MP I haven't played, so can't comment

	16-03-2004 15:28									#17
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I would rather see no change to players 0-4 (in 'order' or 'colour'), im very familiar with these colours (in SP and MP) and so are many others im sure, and in MP its a running joke for the person who gets that ever-so-feminine, PINK. Fear them

As for selecting colours, will this be made part of MP options too?

	16-03-2004 15:32									#18
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It would be an idea.


I thought of a custom civ to but that would have to be stored in a save game making the game none backwards compatible with the original

	16-03-2004 15:47									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora I would rather see no change to players 0-4 (in 'order' or 'colour'), im very familiar with these colours (in SP and MP) and so are many others im sure, and in MP its a running joke for the person who gets that ever-so-feminine, PINK. Fear them

I think the only reason why you don't want to have it changed, so that you can always (still) take the PINK

	16-03-2004 22:39									#20
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This thread inspired me to design a 2nd version of my own colour set. I can't upload it right now due to some Internet connection problems (not on my own pc now), but I stole borrowed some of the nicest colours of Flinx's and Martin's colour sets (mostly Flinx's actually) to make sure all colours are even easier to distinguish from each other. I'm not 100% done but it looks really nice so far (nice colours too, some of my existing ones worked well but were butt ugly, I have far fewer of those now). I'm still playing around with the order of the colours, but no doubt to Maq's delight the first 8 are almost identical to the original set (most colours have a somewhat different tint and I replaced one of the pink/purpleish colours with yellow but otherwise they're pretty much the same). I don't know if others want to use it but I'm quite happy with the set myself. I don't like to brag but it's the best one I've seen so far in 5+ years of CtP history.

I'll upload the set as soon as possible.

I like the option of choosing colours, but I agree with Gilg it should probably be from a set list. Not because of implementation concerns, but to make sure all colours a player can choose from are sufficiently different, thus protecting them from getting the kind of headaches Flinx, Martin and I are getting now

	17-03-2004 00:30									#21
	Re: Summarising and Suggesting a Compromise. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Flinx The player should be able to choose (at least one) version of the major colours: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, and brown.

That's why 0xFF0000 can't be Barbarian.

-Martin

	17-03-2004 01:04									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora ...and in MP its a running joke for the person who gets that ever-so-feminine, PINK. Fear them

I DON'T WANNA BE MISTER PINK!!!

	17-03-2004 01:10									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus I don't know if others want to use it but I'm quite happy with the set myself. I don't like to brag but it's the best one I've seen so far in 5+ years of CtP history.

Yes, I would like to use your colors... as Maquiladora I like the original colors and especially the blue for the human player and the red for the barbarians. I must admit, as you suggested it yourself, that I am used to the original colors for the other civs.

quote: I like the option of choosing colours, but I agree with Gilg it should probably be from a set list.

I agree but I suppose that designing a new interface for choosing the colors when you start a game is not an easy task...

	17-03-2004 05:04									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I DON'T WANNA BE MISTER PINK!!!

How Tarantinesque


Anyway, I seem to have fixed my connection problems (for the moment anyway), so I will post my new colour set. Here are the HMTL table and a screenshot of units with the new colour set.

0	1	2
3	4	5
6	7	8
9	10	11
12	13	14
15	16	17
18	19	20
21	22	23
24	25	26
27	28	29
30	31	32

	17-03-2004 05:09									#25
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Note that all colours are readable in all parts of the game AFAIK. The anthracite colour is slightly harder to read than the other colours in the chat box, but it's still readable. But that doesn't really matter anyway until we want to start supporting MP games with 16+ players...

Screenshots of the minimap: cities at the top, units at the bottom.

Attachment: minimaps.jpg
This has been downloaded 66 time(s).

	17-03-2004 05:15									#26
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Note that to make some of the colours a little bit more readable in the listbox of the Powergraph screen, I changed to colour of the background pattern ever so slightly. If you're not looking for it, you probably won't even notice the difference, but it helps a lot with making the civ names more readable. (Only exceptions are yellow and creme-white, they are still hard to read by deafult, but they *are* perfectly readable if you select them).

The file goes in ctp_data\default\graphics\pictures (doesn't overwrite any existing files so you can try it at your leisure and delete it if you don't like it).

Attachment: uptg06e.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	17-03-2004 05:17									#27
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And finally there's the colour file itself. Note that I also made the grassland colour on the minimap a teeny tiny bit greener -- again, you probably won't notice the difference but it helps to make some colours stand out more.

Attachment: colors00.txt
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	17-03-2004 05:28									#28
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Oh, here's one more screenie that shows the contrast between the white text and the various colours (assuming the converting to JPEG doesn't screw it up).

Attachment: units2.jpg
This has been downloaded 64 time(s).

	17-03-2004 13:09									#29
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Good choice.

My suggestion let's take it as default.

	17-03-2004 16:37									#30
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I have quickly tested the new colors and they are fine... to the exception of the yellow color. It is almost impossible to read the name of the civilization in the "rankings" windows (Wonders, Military, Science, etc.) unless you highlight the name itself. Not really a big issue but an issue nonetheless. I don't know if it has an effect on the said windows but I have tested the colors with the uptg06e.tga file.