14-03-2004 16:19									#1
	Turn 186: 710 AD Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'm starting on the turn. I've got one big question though: Are we going full on Electricity, or do we save cash for 1 turn to sponsor GoW, so that Medicine arrives quickly?

Also, do I need to hold the save for a while, to give us time to negotiate?

DeepO

	14-03-2004 17:57									#2
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Start

- RP sends back their WM for our WM, accepted. Accepted. I'm thinking that for the moment, we should probably keep our WM, even from RP, so that other teams do not know how far we are in our RRing.
- We discover Steam! Set to Electricity, at 80% (can change later if someone comments on last question)

- Typhoon builds worker. Starts market
- Sufa builds worker. Starts market
- SS builds worker. Starts worker
- Blizzard builds worker, starts market

361g, elec in 6 turn @80%, 595 bpt, -50 gpt.
we're starting our RRing with 31 workers. If planned right, that should give us an extra 7-8spt each turn. RR priorities: EotS, Arashi, Cyclone, WoC.

Moves
In general, the worker moves are not covered anymore, it gets too tedious. Only important stuff is mentioned.

- Monsoon9 gets irrigated, to stop it from starving.
- Arashi gets RR on 77, 78, 7, 8, 6, 63. Also gets mines on 7 and 8. Currently on 27spt, needs one more RR (on the hill) to be able to get ToE in 10 turns. (last RR can be done later, only missing 1 shield). A path has been made so that all workers can get to EotS and Cyclone without losing movement.
- Cyclone 23 gets RR. seems odd, but it was one of the few places the 2 workers from Sufa and Tornado could reach in 1 turn and still RR.
- Last worker sarts on EotS7.

- Galley2 moves 2222, to go see if there's a little island down there (I doubt it, but you never know)
- our Southern most galley (off the Lego coast) moves 221. No units in sight, Lego has no seawall. Galley will move a bit outside their cultural borders before heading back home to be upgraded if needed.
- our Western most galleon moves 2222 to uncover some more fog.
- Northern most galley moves 666
- last Galleon (Eastern most, quite close to our Western most on the other side of the dayline) Moves4744. No Australia, it seems.

workforce shuffles
- WoC swaps iron with Inchoff. shield was only going to waste in Inchoff, but can be used in WoC. I'll let the aqua complete before starting on the IW. Waste currently is 4 of 12 shields.


Current Builds

Eli : Aqua in 11
Inchon : Aqua in 16
WoC : Aqua in 6
Inchoff : Harb in 4
Diss : market in 3
Santa Ana : Lib in 1
Blizzard : market in 10
Monsoon : Uni in 11
Arashi : ToE in 11 via Palace (needs one more RR for eta of 10)
WW : aqua in 16
Tempest : bank in 6
SS: worker in 2
Hurricane : CH in 2
OG : Mkt in 6
EotS : Hoover Dam in 22 with RR (via Sistine)
BB : lib in 4
Cyclone: worker in 1
Tornado : Uni in 12
Typhoon : market in 20
Sufa : market n 20

Other

- RP can't have another lux, only if they somehow trade their incense away to someone, and we provide an extra incense. Never mind then. They could use cities at El Paso 77, and if they want to disband one, they could move San Antonio to SA2, and build another one at SA8.

has this been communicated to RP? Who is our ambassador, BTW?

- no change in tech situation for other teams.

- turn has been played, and is ready to be sent. Do we need more time on the diplo front? Either I send it in the next 2 hours, or I'll hold it for another 8 hours or so when I get back from a family visit.

Next Turn
RR plans: get Cyclone into 1-turn worker pump. Normally should have waited 1 more turn, but as it currently is at 5 food in the box, that would not be most efficient.
Needs RR at 7, 2, 26, 4. Needs to have its workforce at those tiles, except 4 (which should be left open, so the new citizen can land there) which is replaced by 23, the tile already RRed.
Main victim of this shuffling will be Sufa, which will need to give a land tile to Typhoon, to keep it from starving. Tornado also loses 1 shield, but that's no disaster.

In total, this uses 12 workers next turn, 4 of which won't have to move far. But another 8 have to come from Arashi. There are 27 workers ready to move, 8 for the tiles as outlayed above, 3 each for EotS 89, 9, 2, 21, 6, 99. That should leave the last worker to complete the RR on EotS7. EotS needs to shuffle to use most spt, but I don't think it will shuffle far.

DeepO

	14-03-2004 18:28									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Some screenshots:

South:


North:


F1 screen:


DeepO

Last edited by DeepO on 15-03-2004 at 03:17

	14-03-2004 18:33									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Euh, Trip, could you tell us again how you can display uploaded screenshots? I remember you explaining it, but can't find the thread, and of course I forgot how it worked.

Thanks,
DeepO

	14-03-2004 20:01									#5
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I've edited the image refence into the right format, but can't get the images to display. Can you check that the filenames are correct?

	14-03-2004 20:09									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

hold the save please

	14-03-2004 22:17									#7
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we need a decision on the gold to GoW. I think this turn. I have sent mz several emails (his pm box is full) . I don't have time to hail him on the chatting frequency today, unfortunately, can someone else see if he can chat, see what their min/max numbers for medicine are? Will the 300 gld we have on hand be enough to shave 2 turns off their eta?

	14-03-2004 23:50									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by DeepO Euh, Trip, could you tell us again how you can display uploaded screenshots? I remember you explaining it, but can't find the thread, and of course I forgot how it worked. Thanks, DeepO

I edited in the HTML tags, but as OPD said, it's not working.

	15-03-2004 02:05									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The filenames were correct, I could click them and see the screenies. Don't know what happened after that, though

And I'll hold the save, Sleepy... I'll send it tomorrow before going to work. Unless we need to send GoW cash (I hope not), in which case I have to replay everything but make them the offer. That will have to wait until tomorrow evening then.

DeepO

	15-03-2004 02:18									#10
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I haven't heard anything back from mz yet. I don't konw what to tell you

	15-03-2004 02:26									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

For the moment, I'll just sit on the save then. I'll keep it warm

Could you also send a little PM to RP?

DeepO

	15-03-2004 02:45									#12
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Saying what exactly?

the extra city bit? I doubt they would want to disband a city.

	15-03-2004 02:56									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

how much would we be willing to sell Steam to ND for?

	15-03-2004 03:16									#14
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well, the extra city they can put on El Paso 77, the moving of the other is not likely to occur.

Steam: I don't know... we can use another lux, and we could use the money. Its market value is something like 3000 beakers first researcher cost, so what about 750 gold? Or 600 gold plus silks for 20 turns? That is not a bad offer I would say.

I would prefer they go for nationalism, so we can trade, though.

DeepO

	15-03-2004 03:51									#15
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel how much would we be willing to sell Steam to ND for?

Nationalism was the original plan - but cash might be better if that's needed to fuel GoW's research.

In principle, ND could pay GoW direct if they have the cash so GoW can put their foot down on Medicine immediately. In practice that is unlikely to be possible this turn.

Maybe we could ask ND if they wanted to pay cash instead of Nat, so they could have it sooner, and if so what would they offer?

Also, I assume we didn't agree to send Steam Power GoW as soon as we reasearched it, or did we?

	15-03-2004 04:26									#16
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Good work on the turn, Deepo.

Its good to so the rails going up and what a bonus at the aptly-named Winds of Change!

	15-03-2004 04:29									#17
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I haven't heard anything that we should send Steam to GoW asap, and that tech is too important to just hand over. if we can take 6 turns head start on RRing, that's 6 turns won. It can't stand in our way when getting Med, though.

DeepO

	15-03-2004 05:13									#18
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so how much do we offer steam for to nd?

I would say, the offer is conditional upon receipt of medicine from GoW.

maybe 500 gold now, 300 to GoW, 200 to us?

we're taking a bath, but they've shown little interest in dealing, and there's a decent chance lego just gets it next turn anyway and undercuts us.

	15-03-2004 05:15									#19
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the deal with GoW was steam for medicine, upon completion.

we might seek to give gow steam now, however, if it would speed up medicine at all. plus its good for relations, otherwise we are holding out.

at the very least we tell them where their coal deposits are.

	15-03-2004 05:17									#20
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and we should consider sending goW the 300 gold we have on hand this turn, as each turn that slips away possibly puts medicine out of reach before ~9 turns

	15-03-2004 05:20									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

500 gold? sorry... but that is very low. If that's what it takes, fine, but still... could you perhaps, as Cort suggests, ask them what they want to give for it? We might end with a better deal. They were willing to give 500 for physics(IIRC), which was only half the beakervalue of steam. Their lux is worth something, though, and future deals is also worth something. Also, they still need 2 medeival techs we can deliver to them, one of which Lego hasn't researched yet (Magnetism). That should be worth something as well.

Coal and GoW: as a sign of good will, you could tell them they don't have to worry, they have coal. I wouldn't give them the exact position. And maybe keep that as a bargaining chip, something to explicitely show good will. Don't just offer the information up front, let them ask it first. It seems much more friendlier.

DeepO

	15-03-2004 05:23									#22
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There is one thing I don't understand: GoW told us a few turns back (before I started playing) they could do Med in less then 10 turns. Currently, we're asking to get it in 6. What did they do in the mean time then? research something else? hord cash for Lego?

9 turns is no good. In that case, I suggest they give us money, and we research it for them. With their support, we can do it in 9 turns ourselves, after electricity.

300 gold to GoW: can be done, but automatically means we're delaying Electricity with 1 turn. We need our cash, we're running deficit now. And it means replaying the turn (but that's not that bad)

DeepO

	15-03-2004 05:28									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

Final observation: we're miles ahead in research capabilities to the rest, only Lego can follow in their GA. That wil change, of course, but for the moment we need a big plan on how to cash in on our major strength. We can run 5 or 6-turn research from now on until we get marines and tanks. we should somehow try to get ahead of everybody else, but OTOH we need them to somehow pay us. I'm not sure we can keep doing these deals so easily, and I'm not sure how much our tech advantage really is worth. We need to start thinking on this if we want to take advantage, we miss some kind of big strategic plan.

DeepO

	15-03-2004 05:54									#24
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nd wants an offer for gold up front, they don't want us to dick around with a price. how much do you think its worth? 800 gold?

I know they've been hording for some time now.

	15-03-2004 06:11									#25
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800 sounds good for me, and maybe say that 20 turn silks is worth 150 gold to us.

Also ask for the other techs, they will need them if they want steam.

DeepO

	15-03-2004 06:35									#26
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of that 800, how much to go to Gow?

and are you saying the real price is: 650 +20 turns of silk?

	15-03-2004 06:46									#27
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We could use another lux, so yes, I would ask that from them.

And GoW: maybe best to ask them how much they need to get it ready in 6 turns, and send it to us accepted so we don't experience any delays in getting SM. I don't mind if GoW gets 650 gold (or even 800 gold) plus steam for Medicine, it is vastly in their favour, but we need them, and they know it. 800 gold + 2 techs, both worth more then Med is too much for my taste, but if they insist we will have little choice.

DeepO

	15-03-2004 08:25									#28
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So what is it that I tell GoW and ND? I just want us all to be on the same page.


ND-

Steam for 650 +20 turns of silk, otherwise 800
(Steam now or upon medicine?)

GoW
Again, how much do they need to max sci.



one problem I have is that my wife is currently on spring break, and any time I have away from work, is well, you know spent with her, thus I don't have an hour solid to kill in chat. If anyone could catch mz in chat tomorrow afternoon, this would be much much more efficient.

	15-03-2004 22:15									#29
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Sleepy, do you need more input, and do you need more help? I don't have time to chat tonight, but if at all possible I'd like to send the save to ND when I return home (in half an hour or so). That way, they can still play it today if they want to, instead of having to wait another day.

DeepO

	15-03-2004 22:19									#30
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I need both. I don't want to step on anyone's toes or accidentally give away the farm.

Unfortunately I've had a few more homefront complications that have occupied me all day (in addition to the wife being home )
fridge died yesterday, landlord dicking me around, finally replacing it, a few other fires to put out here and elsewhere. No time for me to sustain a decent chat, unfortunately