15-03-2004 03:48									#1
	What governments did you use in AU 501? Inflate your Upload Space

In connection with the discussion on possible changes to governments, I think it would be useful to find out more about what governments people used in AU 501. Did we mostly make the same choice between Republic and Monarchy, or are the two balanced well enough that significant numbers chose each? What late-game governments were used, and to what extent? Finding out what governments people used in that game should give some insight into how the people who play AU games currently view the balance among the different governments in practice.

	15-03-2004 05:52									#2
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Good idea for a poll, although AU501 was not a typical game for me.

No Lighthouse for luxury trades and high number of units (Dromons for bombard) meant that Monarchy was better than usual as a first choice.

Then, a large, spread-out, island empire was ideal for Communism as a second government.

	15-03-2004 06:28									#3
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I chose Republic and then stayed in it. I was very close to entering my golden age when I made the switch and secured Republic right beforehand so I wanted the through-the-roof commerce. I was able to keep my wars short enough for war-weariness not to be a problem so I never switched out of it.

Regarding alexman's point of using communism, I was able to make almost all my cities productive in some way. My farthest flung cities (up until the end when I secured one of the Dutch islands) grew to size 12 and then I used 7 scientists in each for maximum science. My starting island, the Japanese island, and the closest three cities on the closer jungle island already had massive production and commerce. And I settled my FP right in the middle of the Sumerian/Hittite continent so over half of the cities on that island were also very productive. I saw no need to flatten out my main producers for a larger production elsewhere.

	15-03-2004 06:48									#4
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Dictatorship.

	15-03-2004 06:52									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill Regarding alexman's point of using communism, I was able to make almost all my cities productive in some way. My farthest flung cities (up until the end when I secured one of the Dutch islands) grew to size 12 and then I used 7 scientists in each for maximum science. My starting island, the Japanese island, and the closest three cities on the closer jungle island already had massive production and commerce. And I settled my FP right in the middle of the Sumerian/Hittite continent so over half of the cities on that island were also very productive. I saw no need to flatten out my main producers for a larger production elsewhere.

I believe one of the main reasons alexman chose Communism was that he conquered the Russian island first, making his empire far more spread out than in other games. And, playing on Deity, it took him a bit longer to finish his conquests, so there was still a lot of building to do by the time Communism came around. I'm not 100% on the details, though...maybe we should ask him.


Dominae

	15-03-2004 07:24									#6
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Monarchy for the reasons alexman suggested, though the lack of luxuries carried more weight for me than troop support.
Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I vaguely recall thinking about just how many more units IC invasions were going to take and that did figure into my decision a bit more than my original comment would suggest.

Democracy because I had a "plan".
I beelined for Demo and Free Artistry(on purpose!) for trading and because I actually really like Shakespeare's Theatre and I like faster workers. Plus, the AI seems to pay well for Printing Press, Demo, Free Art, etc.

Last edited by ducki on 15-03-2004 at 07:59

	15-03-2004 11:40									#7
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Stayed with the old tried and tested Republic, and managed to live with the support cost hike. WW was controllable because the strike power of artillery combined with several armies made meaningful conquests attainable in a relatively few number of turns.

With a tech lead or thereabouts from the Industrial age onwards and huge gpt deals as a result, a switch to democracy jsut wasn't worth the anarchy.

	15-03-2004 17:06									#8
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By the way (to justify my left-wing choice of governments - so far I'm the only one, it seems) here is a comparison between all governments at the point in AU501 when I switched to Communism.

	15-03-2004 19:03									#9
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I switched to Republic and stayed in it, but looking back, I think a lot of the reason for that had to do with how far below my level of ability playing this particular game on Emperor was. When I'm playing on my own, my favorite games are on Demigod with a good starting position, and I restart if a competitive REX won't be possible. But since restarting if I find myself too cramped is not an option in an AU game, and since I have no idea how cramped my starting position will be when I choose what difficulty level to play on, I'm inclined to stick to Emperor in AU games at least for the time being. The fact that I'm more of an "ultimate power" type player who likes to see how big he can win rather than the kind of player who wants to face a serious danger of losing also has a lot to do with my difficulty level preference.

The fact that I played AU 501 on Emperor rather than on Demigod, in turn, had three serious ramifications for my choice of governments. First, it let me fight shorter wars with fewer units, which made Republic more practical as a wartime government than it would have been otherwise. Second, it made it easier for me to build a big empire early through conquest while still building up a strong economy. And third, the fact that research is cheaper on a lower difficulty level leads to less pressure to change to Democracy to cut down on corruption and speed up research. (In AU 501, I wasn't all that interested in building the kind of big, sprawling empire that makes Communism advantageous, but I've since found Communism extremely attractive in other games where I was more interested in building a huge empire and eventually achieving domination.) So I would argue that my ability to use Republic so effectively is likely more a reflection of the fact that I was playing on a difficulty level that was easy for me than an indication that Republic is almost invariably the better choice for players who are playing on a difficulty level where they have a significant risk of losing.

By the way, one caveat to my game: I thought I'd patched my C3C installation to 1.15, but a few days ago, I noticed that I somehow hadn't and was still playing 1.12. I'd downloaded the patch, but either something misfired trying to install it or I ended up not installing it right after I downloaded it and then thought I had. I'm not quite sure what other effects that had, but corruption was definitely more of a problem for me under 1.12 than it would have been under 1.15.

	15-03-2004 20:52									#10
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I used Republic, but never finished the game. Had I done so, I don't think I would have ever switched to anything else. I hate anarchy. More than mayonese.

However, I recently played a game as Babylon (mm, religious) and finally tried out Communism in C3C. This is a direct result of reading alexman's comparison of the governments in AU501. My game was not a 'pelago map, but rather continents, and yet Communism still ROCKS for my Babylonians. I took over my entire continent (3 AI civs destroyed), so I have roughly 1/2 the world. With Communism, the FP and the SPHQ (both MGL rushed), the corruption levels are quite low. Research is roughly the same, but shield production shot through the roof. When playing a religious civ in an "Ultimate Power" game, I'm going commie from now on!

-Arrian

	17-03-2004 01:33									#11
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It's a month since I played this but I may post more DARs soon. I started in Republic and went Communist.

It may have been a mistake to choose Republic ober Monarchy. Like others, I was surprised at how many units the Japanese were able to throw at me on Demigod and I would have been able to finish them earlier and more easily in Monarchy.

Switching to Communism did slow my science to start with. Military expansion allowed me to catch up with what I'd lost relatively quickly though. The main reason for this is that my core cities in general produced less science than any other, thanks to their spacing. A freshly captured AI city started on a library first, normally had an aqueduct and hospital and was surrounded by plenty of irrigated grassland or plains. It often took only 10 to 15 turns for one to overtake a core city in science. Even tundra islands didn't need many improvements to do so and plenty of those were half-price.

Arrian, I wouldn't expect Religious civs to be much more suited to Communism than others, especially when compared to Scientific civs. Communism is better at happiness than Republic and worse at commerce. The science I would have lost delaying libraries in captured cities is probably bigger than that I lost in anarchy although that's probably not a relevant comparison.

Anarchy hurts production hardest and Monarchy, Republic and Democracy are very close in production. Switching to Communism can feel closer to switching out of Despotism. It can be worth it to have switched much sooner than any of the switches between those goverments. I'd imagine there are common circumstances where even a non-religious civ would be better off by the modern age.

	17-03-2004 01:43									#12
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Nor Me returns!

Edit: just in time to vote on changes to Governments before AU502.

Last edited by alexman on 17-03-2004 at 01:53

	17-03-2004 07:07									#13
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Update: Our resident comedian Hermann the Lombard is still slogging away and has just become the third confirmed AU501 Communist!