17-03-2004 01:54									#91
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So you didn't think carefully, Centrifuge

A NaCl crystal does not contain NaCl molecules. It's simply a grid of Na+ and Cl- ions.

Check your textbook in inorganic chemistry if you don't believe me

	17-03-2004 01:57									#92
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You guys are going to force me to start digging out all of my old textbooks aren't you

	17-03-2004 01:58									#93
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Yes

	17-03-2004 01:59									#94
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CI

when you have a NaCl Crystal, you cannot differentiate between. different molecules.

Try to imagine an organic molecular crystal on the atomic level. It's obvious you'll be able to differentiate between molecules.

	17-03-2004 02:00									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel At my Atkins general chemistry book, I remember very clearly they said that it's NOT a molecule. I was shocked, btw. Provost, this is true. I think that the nature of the Na-Cl bond is around 90% Ionic, and the rest is covalent. I think the question we must ask is, can we evaporate NaCl, and bring it to a state where small particles of NaCl float?

Oh I agree, NaCl is definitely ionic and forms a lattice. In reality there is no such thing as an NaCl unit as it forms a lattice - NaCl is it's empirical formula in effect. But there is a lot of grey area in this definition though. CsF would most definitely be ionic, and O2 would certainly be covalent, but what would, for example, AgBr be?

	17-03-2004 02:01									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid So you didn't think carefully, Centrifuge A NaCl crystal does not contain NaCl molecules. It's simply a grid of Na+ and Cl- ions. Check your textbook in inorganic chemistry if you don't believe me

Yes, yes, yes, but the point is that you can take 1 Na+ and 1 Cl- and have a compound which has all of the same properties of the bulk crystal,

...which by every definition that I've seen, makes it a molecule.

	17-03-2004 02:03									#98
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quote: Oh I agree, NaCl is definitely ionic and forms a lattice. In reality there is no such thing as an NaCl unit as it forms a lattice - NaCl is it's empirical formula in effect. But there is a lot of grey area in this definition though. CsF would most definitely be ionic, and O2 would certainly be covalent, but what would, for example, AgBr be?

Well, noone said the world is black and white. You can also have complexes forming. that make you ask "is this a molecule"?

BH3-O(Me)2., for example.

	17-03-2004 02:06									#99
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge Yes, yes, yes, but the point is that you can take 1 Na+ and 1 Cl- and have a compound which has all of the same properties of the bulk crystal, ...which by every definition that I've seen, makes it a molecule.

No, the point is that the NaCl "molecule" is mainly theoretical in nature

	17-03-2004 02:09									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid No, the point is that the NaCl "molecule" is mainly theoretical in nature

Okay, I'll agree with that,

...but truthfully a great deal of chemistry relies upon modeling things in ways that are not seen in nature.

	17-03-2004 02:12									#101
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True

	17-03-2004 02:17									#102
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Modelling for the purposes of calculation only...stoichiometric calculations would be murder otherwise But you have to keep an image of the broader picture in your mind about what is going on.

	17-03-2004 02:21									#103
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what's REALLY going on, that is.

	17-03-2004 02:28									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Modelling for the purposes of calculation only...stoichiometric calculations would be murder otherwise But you have to keep an image of the broader picture in your mind about what is going on.

Somewhere in the middle of graduate school, I decide to stop giving a **** about what was really going on

...that's sometimes the problem I think, as you become more and more specialized you can sometimes bypass the little details on areas that aren't related to your specialty.

	17-03-2004 02:40									#105
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what's your specialization, centrifuge?

	17-03-2004 02:41									#106
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Yeah, that's a big problem in modern science.

Attachment: science.jpg
This has been downloaded 34 time(s).

	17-03-2004 02:46									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel what's your specialization, centrifuge?

Electroanalytical chemistry, In particular, I've been looking at the electrosynthesis of semi-conducting polymers, and their use for developing heavy metal sensors.

	17-03-2004 02:49									#108
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge Somewhere in the middle of graduate school, I decide to stop giving a **** about what was really going on ...that's sometimes the problem I think, as you become more and more specialized you can sometimes bypass the little details on areas that aren't related to your specialty.

That happened to me when my engineering classes started referring to reactions as simply A+B---->C or C+D.

	17-03-2004 03:00									#109
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CI, Nice picture BTW

	17-03-2004 03:37									#110
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quote: Originally posted by GePap can anyone get a .org address or do they have to prove they are a valid organization?

I have glonk.org, and I'm no organization.

	17-03-2004 04:34									#111
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Sweet URL, Asher!!