17-03-2004 18:06									#1
	An apology to the CyCon from the Hive* Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: It is not a sign of weakness to admit mistakes, as certain members of the Hive may believe, but an apology for this action officially communicated to the CPU would be looked upon very favourably and would show the Hive does indeed have a strong belief in inter-faction communication and cooperation, as it seemed to show by calling a meeting of the Council. Such an apology, or even the recommencement of negotiations on the establishing of boundaries for the greater safety of BOTH factions would relieve the CPU and ease tensions to the benefit of both. The CPU is not (IMO) going to go to war over a single incident, but the danger is there where such diplomatic failures to communicate continue. I urge the Hive to think this through and to see that the only way out is together, not against. We ain't so bad if you make your intentions and concerns known. If you had warned us the CP must go or else then there would at least have been warning, and consequently far less outrage. Let's please just chalk this up as a mistake and get back on the road to cooperation.

Ok, we screwed up. We attacked a PEACE colony pod under your control and eliminated it. You have no information as to the fate of the colonists, and obviously you are annoyed.

We feel that we had good justification for doing so, but you seem to disagree.

For the sake of Planetary Peace, we offer our deepest apologies to CyCon. As the destroyed pod was stolen property we cannot offer compensation, unless the CyCon were to then compensate the PEACE for the original theft, but we are happy to pass the ec value of the CP directly to the PEACE faction if this is desired.

We hope that neither of our factions will use this regrettable incident as an excuse for millitary action.

-Jam

*Comrade Jamski no longer has any formal rank in the Hive government

	17-03-2004 18:22									#2
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Er, thank you Jamski. I am sure your feelings will be appreciated by the rest of the CPU. I would like to take this opportunity to call upon the Hive government to listen to the regrets of citizens such as Jamski about the whole business and to make some official diplomatic reparations towards CPU so we can put this behind us.

	17-03-2004 19:09									#3
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As an ambasador of the Conciousness I greatfully accept your apology. Indeed thing as simple as an apology like this will go a great distance in defusing the situation as Cycon found the Hives atitude more threatening then the actual military actions in question.

Your plan to send Reperations to PEACE could present an oportunity to build trust between all 3 Factions. Rather then transmit the Reperations directly to PEACE why dont we agree to have the Hive transmit the what ever sum they wish to the Cycon bundled with a Truce and for Cycon to imediatly send thouse Credits to PEACE bundeled with another Truce offer. Along with an official recognition of Territories, Bounaries and Nutral Zones by all factions in the near future. Thus we can all save face here and come out in a peacefull stance.

Is this acceptable to the Hive and PEACE?

	17-03-2004 21:30									#4
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Er, thank you Jamski. I am sure your feelings will be appreciated by the rest of the CPU. I would like to take this opportunity to call upon the Hive government to listen to the regrets of citizens such as Jamski about the whole business and to make some official diplomatic reparations towards CPU so we can put this behind us.

The opinions and view of Comrade Jamski are his own, the do not necessarily represent the views of the People and government of the Human Hive.

We’re willing to move on, but for the last time you’re not getting any reparations since you didn’t really loose anything.

	17-03-2004 21:31									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Your plan to send Reperations to PEACE could present an oportunity to build trust between all 3 Factions. Rather then transmit the Reperations directly to PEACE why dont we agree to have the Hive transmit the what ever sum they wish to the Cycon bundled with a Truce and for Cycon to imediatly send thouse Credits to PEACE bundeled with another Truce offer. Along with an official recognition of Territories, Bounaries and Nutral Zones by all factions in the near future. Thus we can all save face here and come out in a peacefull stance. Is this acceptable to the Hive and PEACE?

You're joking, right?

	17-03-2004 21:37									#6
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Wait, Voltaire. This kind of response is what makes people get mad.

I think its best if neither side demands anything of the other in return for peace. Peace should be its own reward.

However, I'm sure the Hive could spare the small sum to cover the cost of mindcontroling a CP, and it would also be a demonstration of the trustworthyness of the CyCon if they then give the money to PEACE as promised.

Its not a bad plan, everyone saves face, and we get to give poor old PEACE some financial aid "through the backdoor"

Of course if the CyCon keep the cash, then all the nice talk about peaceful intentions was bullschit. And if The Hive really refuse this small gesture, then what does that say about "the faction that cares about PEACE" ?

-Jam

	17-03-2004 21:38									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire We’re willing to move on, but for the last time you’re not getting any reparations since you didn’t really loose anything.

Very well, can Hive agree then to transfer to PEACE the amount of energy it asks for reparations, sign a truce with CPU and even allow our cruiser near Conshelf 57 return home?

Especially this last gesture will shock the, I'm afraid unavoidable warmongers within CPU, and silence their voices sufficiently so the moderate voices can be heard clearer.

Any other proposal will off course be listened to and debated.

Edit:

It seems that I responded to quickly, but the proposal still stands.

I salute the gesture of a common Hive citizen. We of CPU might have to learn a lesson out of this.

	17-03-2004 21:52									#8
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I'm just pleading with Voltaire to accept this revised offer. As a private Hive citizen I have no wish to send my sons and brothers to fight against the CyCon because the Chairman couldn't spare 30-60 ec

-Jam

	17-03-2004 22:10									#9
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Establishing trust here is adsactly the point of said exchange plan. We all want peace, but in the present situation it would be a rather stressed peace, almost a cold war. Guestures like this could help greatly to ruduce tentions.

If the above proposal is to much to soon then perhaps something a bit different.

We all sign Truces next turn, Cycon will transmit 60 Credits to the Pirates and then only after this has been verified by the Hive will the Hive be obligated to send Cycon 60 Credits. If we have peace next turn then I am shure my fellow Cyborgs will be willing to make this offer.


In addition we have an offer of territorial boundaries which we suspect will be agreeable to all.

The Nutral Zone with the Hive shall be a Rectangular area with the corners (38/32), (28/42), (34/48) and (44/38). Neither the Hive, Cycon or the Pirates will move into or through this area or found bases in it. Incase your wondering thats a 7 tile deep rectangle running from the Angel Coast up to the islands that will be PEACE territory and includes the 2 small islands ware much conflict has occured.


For the purposes of border clairification I think we should use a simple strait line to deside the PEACE border. PEACE territory would be Square with its southern tip at (48/40). Its border with the Hive is ofcorse an issue between them, with us they will agree to build bases and move units only within this zone. The border line will also extend into the unexplored territory in the northern Hemiphere untill it intersect either the top of the Map or Drone Territory.

This territorial proposal will also be discussed with the Pirates ofcorse. I envite them to respond here or on other threads.

	17-03-2004 22:15									#10
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The compensation/treaty offer is not tied to the neutral zone offer is it?

It would be a pain if people started adding other conditions to a simple cash/treaty deal.

-Jam

	17-03-2004 22:24									#11
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No they are not tied together and can be negotiated and enacted seperatly.

I am hopefull that we can get the borders agreed upon next turn as both factions seem eager for have this security messure in place.

I have used map cordinates as I am not shure if the Hive has access to the world map of the Pirates (I would be suprised if they didnt though). If not I hope the fact some of the territory in question is inky blackness to the Hive will not interfere with the negotiations.

If a Hive representative feels the Nural Zone is agreeable or wishes to propose an alteration we can work that out easily untill we reach something mutualy agreeable (likly by expanding the zone), then we can begin Polls in both factions and have an official signing by our leadership.

	17-03-2004 22:42									#12
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Could you perhaps post a screenshot with the proposed neutral zone marked on it?

-Jam

	17-03-2004 23:09									#13
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Here follows an old screenshot which was to be used in PEACE talks, before the Hive broke the ceasefire:



(Note that I am no longer CPU official, so this screenshot may be worth nothing anymore)

	17-03-2004 23:22									#14
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Well I just returned from my business trip and looks like there are quite a few threads that I need to read through. But just a couple quick feedbacks here. First Hive has not broke anything. The ceasefire is between PEACE and CPU IIRC. The Hive is not even invited in your peace talk?

Second I'm not sure 60ecs from CC can really cover the PEACE CP that was stolen. For all I know it is about all that PEACE have for their last hope of survival. A CP may not be worth much for the CPU, but I'm sure it is worth millions for the PEACE.

	17-03-2004 23:29									#15
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu The Hive is not even invited in your peace talk?

You and several other Hiveans were sent that PM with that eight points proposal. The Hive chose not to react on it.

	18-03-2004 00:25									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Your plan to send Reperations to PEACE could present an oportunity to build trust between all 3 Factions. Rather then transmit the Reperations directly to PEACE why dont we agree to have the Hive transmit the what ever sum they wish to the Cycon bundled with a Truce and for Cycon to imediatly send thouse Credits to PEACE bundeled with another Truce offer. Along with an official recognition of Territories, Bounaries and Nutral Zones by all factions in the near future. Thus we can all save face here and come out in a peacefull stance. Is this acceptable to the Hive and PEACE?

PEACE certainly likes the proposal.

I believe the neutral zone was also acceptable to PEACE... am I to assume that those two islands that were marked through are to be neutral?

Likewise, I believe Yardarm Island on the other side was requested to be made neutral (especially the straight between the landmass to the NE in the picture and Yardarm, since that would be an easy 'back door' to CPU territory.

	18-03-2004 01:02									#17
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Second I'm not sure 60ecs from CC can really cover the PEACE CP that was stolen.

Well, if the Hive were to pay the amount we paid for it, to pay for the one they destroyed, I'm sure we could build one and give it to PEACE. So we're back where we started, PEACE have the CP, and neither of us gains or loses any ec.

You cried foul at us attacking PEACE military units, calling it an atrocity, yet you, while unprovoked, destroy a colony pod. Not that there's any hypocracy in that. If that motion was legal, and killing is outlawed by international law, as was your actions. So yes, if we broke the law, so did you. Not only that, but the only unit you attacked was a non-military, civilian unit. It wasn't even an unprovoked attack, it was a slaughter of innocent civilians.

	18-03-2004 01:22									#18
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash I believe the neutral zone was also acceptable to PEACE... am I to assume that those two islands that were marked through are to be neutral?

That is the proposal, neither of our 3 factions is allowed to found a base in this area. The map you see is an older one, in the current proposal quite some sea tiles around it would be considered neutral territory as well.
This is, for now, a rough outline, but basically a sound one IMO.

quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash Likewise, I believe Yardarm Island on the other side was requested to be made neutral (especially the straight between the landmass to the NE in the picture and Yardarm, since that would be an easy 'back door' to CPU territory.

Borderlines with PEACE will have to be more specific, but I think will most likely in our proposal be drawn on the narrowest part of straits.

	18-03-2004 02:06									#19
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quote: Borderlines with PEACE will have to be more specific, but I think will most likely in our proposal be drawn on the narrowest part of straits.

That was what we were assuming.

	18-03-2004 02:38									#20
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quote: You cried foul at us attacking PEACE military units, calling it an atrocity, yet you, while unprovoked, destroy a colony pod. Not that there's any hypocracy in that. If that motion was legal, and killing is outlawed by international law, as was your actions. So yes, if we broke the law, so did you. Not only that, but the only unit you attacked was a non-military, civilian unit. It wasn't even an unprovoked attack, it was a slaughter of innocent civilians.

Drogue, please avoid using this emotive language. All this talk of outlawed attackers and innocent civillians only makes it much harder to sort out a peace deal that is acceptable to everyone.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 02:42									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Drogue, please avoid using this emotive language. All this talk of outlawed attackers and innocent civillians only makes it much harder to sort out a peace deal that is acceptable to everyone.

My idea exactly.

But CPU lives in a democracy, the previous Prime Function declared all Function entitled for diplomatic messages, thus every one is allowed to speak out to his heart contents.

	18-03-2004 02:44									#22
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I said please.

Sure Drogue can have his opinion, but this kind of talk goes down better in propaganda rags like PRAVDA or 3D.

Let's try and be more formal and polite. We can aim for French aristocrat-style, hmmm?

-Jam

	18-03-2004 02:49									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac You and several other Hiveans were sent that PM with that eight points proposal. The Hive chose not to react on it.

Oh! My apology. I have not realized that that was the peace talk. I thought that the peace talk was on a seperate forum run by tass or something. Sorry.

I will go back and take another look.

	18-03-2004 02:57									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Drogue, please avoid using this emotive language. All this talk of outlawed attackers and innocent civillians only makes it much harder to sort out a peace deal that is acceptable to everyone.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to stop a deal, just point out the hypocrasy. I'd rather ignore the whole "innocent civilians" part, I'm just a little peeved that we had it all thrown at us, debated and hung out to try, and then you go and attack us doing what you argued against (you meaning the Hive of course). Just for fun sake I had to point it out. I'm sorry if I caused offence, I did not mean to inflame, just point out something that I noticed

	18-03-2004 03:01									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Sure Drogue can have his opinion, but this kind of talk goes down better in propaganda rags like PRAVDA or 3D.

How comes that no one came upon this idea already??

Let's start the thread. Anyone can say (almost) anything they like!!

	18-03-2004 03:04									#26
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Nice idea. I'll do it.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 03:06									#27
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http://www.apolyton.com/forums/show...threadid=110912

Let the insults flow.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 03:52									#28
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Oh! My apology. I have not realized that that was the peace talk. I thought that the peace talk was on a seperate forum run by tass or something. Sorry. I will go back and take another look.

Hmmm can't find it in my PM log. But I do remember reading it. Perhaps you have sent it through other comrades.

	18-03-2004 08:27									#29
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Tis scary - Jamski is the calm voice of reason from the Hive.

	18-03-2004 08:50									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Tis scary - Jamski is the calm voice of reason from the Hive.

So, the weather forcast in Hell was cold with sleet?