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Heavy and Happy
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Pikku G |
Ahhh damn. You know about the great shame of Finland.
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East Street Trader
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London, United Kingdom
Jun 2000
time: 05:34
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There is a divide in the world between the haves and the have nots. And nowadays the have nots get reminded a whole lot about the inequality because of the world's much improved communications.
Much of the stuff showing people engaged in spectacular consumption comes from or is set in the USA plus the US has, over the last 50 years or so, engaged in an interventionist style of foreign relations.
So it is not surprising that the focus of the have nots envy is the US.
I am not altogether certain about how this has lately come to have a religious sub text. But I suppose it may be that the part of the world where the US has interfered the most is the middle east. Partly because of the relationship the US maintains with Israel and partly because of the political importance of cheap oil in the US.
Or maybe it is just that some other areas of the world have their own pre-occupations just now. Africa with Aids and with tribal conflict, India and China with their burgeoning economic and political development. (Who knows what in South America.)
Anyway among the have nots it has lately been the Moslem states where envy of the US and resentment at its interventions have been most felt.
It is desperately disappointing that this should lead large numbers of people to think well of those men of blood who give expression to their frustrations by striking out.
But I guess I have not suffered what the have nots suffer so I should not expect to be able to understand.
What seems to me clear is that one of the major challenges facing the world is to eliminate the divide.
That it is feasible to do so is clear. The machine is busy churning out such mountains of wealth that all it takes to bring every single human being into the "have" category is some method of distribution.
At present we lack the institutions to achieve that distribution. Capitalism and market forces are not doing it for us - or, if they are, they are not doing it quickly enough. And communism is now recognised as a busted flush.
Anyway, in the end, that is the way forward. Wars against terrorism are merely distracting trivialities.
As also, I rather think, are nation states and the patriotic fervours which give them cohesion.
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Pax
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I think the need to be liked centers around the desire not to be attacked on the way to work, at work or at home. If more people liked us we would feel safer and less likely to be concerned with how the rest of the world feels.
I dare to say that most americans felt like we were minding our own business prior to 9/11 and that did not work. Combine that with President Bush and you have a situation in which not only can any city in the U.S. be attacked but any city in the Muslim world stands to feel the full force of military might or at least what can be spared. What can be spared is more than enough to give most countries a bloody nose.
Other countries dislike is also due to jealousy. The U.S. is the most powerful country in the world. Their is always hatred of Number 1. Any country occupying that spot would be hated.
In the end, I think it should be hard for Middle Eastern countries to be mad at the U.S. when it's the european countries that monopized their resources and left them in a weakened state when their empires collapsed.
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child of Thor
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I see the other side of the world plays while i sleep 
@Pekka - I'm glad you dont hate me, even though you thought i was just stiring up a bash america discussion, its why i like Finns(and scandinavians - reasonable people by and large,with sensible foreign policies) 
And maybe i chose a bad title for the thread -
@Theben you hit the nail on the head, as i read the BBC article i thought "who loves ya baby?" - its from Kojak a 70's american detective series, so that was the reason for the title. Sorry if it mislead 
@ East Street Trader , yes i come to very simular thoughts on it all, even though to some people, and at some times i might be called a fascist rather than a commie
I think this world issue is well beyond any sort fo neat party political label.
I dont think its a simple issue of either being branded a supporter of the disturbed terrorist, or being a supporter of any wolrd government that wages war on other countries for a dubious reason.
These things are never black and white - in fact they are mostly grey, and our governments want it that way.
Why they do it is one question worth asking(probably something as stupid as money), and why we let them is another(probably the same reason?).
Our world doesn't seem safer to me now - and its future most likely less so, i cant see a change of heart from the first world rulers. Not unless we really take part in the whole process and try to address the imbalances that have festered away for a good few hundred years(like using the vote etc).
We going to have to make those life decisions if we want to see a different heading for this thread
We owe it to our future as citizens of planet earth.
And i dont think it will just work to kill eveyone you see as an enemy - although i suspect this is actualy seen as a real possible plan in some quarters!
PS i'm not a communist/hippie/red  for those that want to dismiss this thread - i'd happily kill in war, at close quarters, with bare hands; if i felt it was justified...or maybe just for the hell of it.....grrrrrrrr!
So please dont be blind to our emerging fate, i think the new aspect of our present day warrents a serious re-think on how we lead from here on. We create the wolrd our children have to live, i'm slightly dissapointed with how selfish we have been up to now 
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Cruddy
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Much of the world has a love/hate relationship with the USA.
Americans love themselves and everybody else hates them for it.
Personally I think this is a very shallow attitude - which fits in with my notion that most people really are very shallow.
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Rogan Josh
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Are you trying to get us to change our policies? |
No - it was just a statement - I don't have a machine readable passport and I can't be bothered to apply for a visa....
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Rogan Josh
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
With attitudes like that I wish the US would go back into isolation, and let the world see how things would be then. |
So do we.
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Pax
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I also love USA sluts.
My point is that any nation on top will basically make policies that are designed to keep them on top. It's foolish of anyone to expect that the U.S. would do otherwise. The debate inside the U.S. is to whether or not the current policies advance the best interests of the U.S.
Also, Europe initiated most of the previous and current problems in the middle east and asia. So it's not fair for the U.S. to be blamed solely for the current crisis.
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18-03-2004 14:20
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