27-03-2004 00:01									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree that the current tech tree is good in terms of how humans think.

The human player can make a decision about whether needs riflemen are needed right away, or whether it would be better to go for the industrial military units or hoover. It adds choices for the human to be able to decide at what point in the age his civ needs a new government or nationalism.

On the other hand, the AI doesn't seem to be very good at making those decisions.

I think the underlying problem with regards to balancing the nationalism tree against the rest of the industrial techs is that the AI is not capable of weighing the actual benefits of the techs in nationalism tree against the opportunity cost of not going for factories, industrial military units, or hoover.

I would agree that the last idea I suggested is far too much change.

However, I think that the nationalism techs tend to be a stumbling block to the AI, and the more nationalism techs there are, the bigger the stumbing block. I do think that some consolidation of those techs is appropriate.

Making facism a "free" industrial tech that required communism would be the same as moving facism gov to communism tech, wouldn't it?

	27-03-2004 00:28									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

alexman would know better, but I'm inclined to think that a tech that enables a government is highly valued by the AI. Adding a second govt - wild assumption - would seem to make the AI value that tech even more. If true, having a separate freebie tech with the second government should, after a fashion, prevent the AI from further overvaluing Communism.

Of course, if I have misunderstood how the AI places value on (particularly government) techs, I'll gladly boil my boot and savor it with a fine chianti. Ooh! And some gum!

	27-03-2004 01:08									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by ducki alexman would know better, but I'm inclined to think that a tech that enables a government is highly valued by the AI. Adding a second govt - wild assumption - would seem to make the AI value that tech even more. If true, having a separate freebie tech with the second government should, after a fashion, prevent the AI from further overvaluing Communism.

That would be important if and only if Alexman couldn't work his magic to make Totalitarianism's value to the AIs reasonable (however one defines "reasonable") even with the second government attached to it. If Alexman could work the appropriate magic, consolidating the two techs would be a cleaner approach.

	27-03-2004 11:56									#34
	Inflate your Upload Space

Alex,

All that would be needed is an editor change under 'Civilizations'. Simply add Commi or Fascism under the starting techs/ free techs section for each CIV. This would NOT make them available at start, but would make them automatically available after Nationalism is researched.

Ision

	28-03-2004 00:38									#35
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ision This would NOT make them available at start, but would make them automatically available after Nationalism is researched.

As I pointed out above, it wouldn't. They'd be available from the start of the industrial age. I've tried this with C3C beta patch 1.15 and even with a goverment tech.