19-03-2004 02:27									#31
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Jamski you've done it again

It's Great!

keep this in perspective...

	19-03-2004 02:28									#32
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Finally some honorable spirit there. No matter if you will be our friend of foe, ally or rival, you will be respected.

	19-03-2004 02:32									#33
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Hmmm. First are you saying you believe wars are unhonorable? So will you be against all wars? Even the war that Jamski is promoting against the Drones? I'm seriously asking this question. For I for one, will support any effort to prevent all war in this planet. I understand this will diminish the interest of a large portion of this game, but as I said before, I personally will embrace the concept of a no war peaceful development and competition.

Yes. I am a pacifist. Perhaps I should start a party in CPU, since I believe many will support me.

quote: Ok other small points that needs to be cleared. First I always check my PM very carefully. Why do you feel I have not done so and by not doing so somehow hinted the talks between you and peace?

Haven`t you said in a thread somewhere here, that you didn`t perceive our 8 point peace program as official one?

quote: Second, I was not sure if you ARE accusing the Drones' of cheating?

No, ofcourse not!

quote: Third, I thought it was you who offered non roleplaying as one reason against the Drones, not the Drones offered rolyplay as the reason they attack you? Not sure you misread, or misunderstood, or was simply trying to shift attention.

It was Jamski who offered it first, as he said, ACDG being beat by a single man.

quote: Fourth, I thought it was clear that those opinions of mine was responding to your post, instead of Jamski's initial post. I was actually a little moved by his and Impaler's post btw. And those got me thinking. But I really do want to say something in respond to your post too. I apologize if it was not clear before. As for personal feelings, I thought I've seen plenty. We are humans after all. Who doesn't have personal feelings? Personal feelings are not some bad thing. If you don't see them, I really feel for you.

Voltaires are only one to see, all others I preceive as roleplying.

	19-03-2004 03:23									#34
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Hey. Don't spam the call-up-to-the-glorious-crusade thread with "you did this" and "they said that"

Fact : The Drones (the most powerful faction) have attacked CPU for no reason, without warning, etc.

Fact : The Drones expect that the Hive join this attack

Fact : There already exists a state of war between CPU and Drone

The question is very simple. Do we unite to save the ACDG factions, or do we either sit by and do nothing, or even worse, help the Drones to kill off this game?

By my understanding, even if all us other factions band together vs the Drones, it will JUST be a fair fight. We may still lose, but at least we'll lose side by side, fighting for the SPIRIT of the ACDG, against Buster's one-man-says-zip crap.

So, are you with me, or shall we all say "Ok, Buster won, next game" ?

Stand up and fight goddamit - to my own Comrades as much as to our brothers and sisters in the PEACE and CPU.

-Jam, for you.

	19-03-2004 03:25									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Hey. Don't spam the call-up-to-the-glorious-crusade thread with "you did this" and "they said that" Fact : The Drones (the most powerful faction) have attacked CPU for no reason, without warning, etc. Fact : The Drones expect that the Hive join this attack Fact : There already exists a state of war between CPU and Drone The question is very simple. Do we unite to save the ACDG factions, or do we either sit by and do nothing, or even worse, help the Drones to kill off this game? By my understanding, even if all us other factions band together vs the Drones, it will JUST be a fair fight. We may still lose, but at least we'll lose side by side, fighting for the SPIRIT of the ACDG, against Buster's one-man-says-zip crap. So, are you with me, or shall we all say "Ok, Buster won, next game" ? Stand up and fight goddamit - to my own Comrades as much as to our brothers and sisters in the PEACE and CPU. -Jam, for you.

I am supporting you, but your fellow Hiverians are bent or turning this into spam. I am fully for this Jam.

	19-03-2004 03:27									#36
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Jamski

The nOOb is with you, I have applied for membership to the Hive.

The Drones must be stopped! (because Skanky says they smell bad)

	19-03-2004 03:39									#37
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Con, welcome

Obstructor - Re: Some of my Hive team - of course they are trying to bog this down in talks - but there's no time left to talk. Unless the Hive strikes now against the Drones, then the Uni is GONE next turn. Powerful as CPU is, the Drone attack already has captured 4(5?) bases. If Voltaire can say "oh we can talk about this later" that is dooming the CPU to a quick death. If he does the unthinkable and attacks the CPU too... well, shame on him. He can override any vote or poll and make a descicion on his own.

If you beleive, then pray to Tassadar or GooglieGod. Tonight even I'm going to offer up a quick one.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 03:51									#38
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Please don't try to imply here that it is Voltaire who overrides any vote or poll Jamski. I value your spirit of fighting and your devotion toward friends. Please do not ruin that by trying to lie and shift blame to other people. Voltaire has not overide any poll. If the Hive breaks up war against the CPU, it is because the Hive as a team decides this, not because Voltaire overrides anything. If the Hive decides not to go to war against the CPU, it will also be the decision of the team. Yes we've had polls and you are well aware of the result. If you fail to convince your teamates, be a man and take that result. Don't try to look good in others eyes by implying something that has not happened.

We can always joke about me loving you for your inconsistancy but I am serious about being brave and truthful.

	19-03-2004 03:58									#39
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Did Drones betray you? Did they have a secret arrangement of pact or something with you that the others are not aware of and they backstabbed you? I did think that buster posted his declaration of war in the turn thread. How else would you know that the Drones are at war with you without getting the turn otherwise?

Buster didn't send a declaration of war when he attacked PUT the first time. If the unification didn't went through at that time, PUT would be history now, and Drones twice as strong.

And you're right, we only assume we're at war, because of Busters' message. Hive knows for sure, off course, since the turn is with you.

Are you saying that Buster has a bad sence of humour?

	19-03-2004 03:58									#40
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Ok, you have a point, but Voltaire can override any poll we make. Its in the "constitution".

I shall be so ashamed of my faction if they vote to fight against the CPU. Of the faction and of the members.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 04:00									#41
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quote: Originally posted by obstructor Yes. I am a pacifist. Perhaps I should start a party in CPU, since I believe many will support me.

I imagine there might not be another multi team/party game after this. But if there would be one I would join your team/party.

quote: Haven`t you said in a thread somewhere here, that you didn`t perceive our 8 point peace program as official one?

It was not sent to me. I also didn't have the impression that it was a copy of the CPU-PEACE settlement when I read it in the Hive forum. But I failed to locate it when I tried to go back for another look.

quote: It was Jamski who offered it first, as he said, ACDG being beat by a single man.

Ok so we are clear that the Drones had not made that accusation. I will disregard your comment about this then.

quote: Voltaires are only one to see, all others I preceive as roleplying.

I must make a clarification. The post of Voltaire you are referenced to I believe is because I have told my teamates that I have received negative feedbacks from CPU member that they didn't perceive our roleplay as simple roleplay. It is good to hear that others in CPU are reading us differently.

	19-03-2004 04:04									#42
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Buster didn't send a declaration of war when he attacked PUT the first time. If the unification didn't went through at that time, PUT would be history now, and Drones twice as strong. And you're right, we only assume we're at war, because of Busters' message. Hive knows for sure, off course, since the turn is with you. Are you saying that Buster has a bad sence of humour?

I'm not saying anything about Buster and sense of humour.

What I don't get is what's the big difference between Drones-PUT war and CC-PEACE war?

	19-03-2004 04:04									#43
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quote: I’d like to make this clear if it wasn’t already before, so long as I am Chairman we will not back out of the permipact with the Drones, I made a promise to Buster and the Drones as a whole that this will be the way things are. As HongHu has pointed out the Drones have been honorable and loyal to the permipact and to us, they have given us no cause to break of relations with them, let alone attack them. Everyone should understand that this is a game, and games are played in part to win. Yes friendship is involved and I know very well all of us have become close to other players in this game on our own teams and on other teams, but we have a duty and responsibility to the Hive itself, the team we have joined, to do what is in its best interest, and IMO sticking with the Drones is in our best interest. We agreed from the start to work together until the end and share victory, I see no reason to back out of that. As for the CyCon, I feel no great love toward them that I should be swayed by your appeals to emotion Jamski. They have done many things which I considered insensitive at best, the attack and desire to eliminate PEACE being one of them.

Voltaire just posted this in the private forum.

We're all doomed, it seems. Good luck CPU.

	19-03-2004 04:08									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Ok, you have a point, but Voltaire can override any poll we make. Its in the "constitution". I shall be so ashamed of my faction if they vote to fight against the CPU. Of the faction and of the members. -Jam

Thanks Jamski. I know you are a real man that are not afraid to admit it if he makes a mistake. We may vote to fight against or not fight against the faction. But I am not aware of any polls regarding fighting with any members.

If you are referring to me, yes I have the bad habit of not able to shut up. And I admit that I am not always right. But I will not hesitate to admit if it turns out that I was wrong. And I try to think and talk to others before I vote so that I don't make the wrong decision.

	19-03-2004 04:09									#45
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You know what Jamski, this is completely out of line. You’re talking to other factions about internal Hive matters, I tolerate a lot and this as well, but frankly it is your fellow Hivers you should be trying to convince not the other factions. I for one an rather insulted you have tried to bully and pressure us into a decision of your liking by making this a public discussion, this is not helping your cause.

	19-03-2004 04:11									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Con, welcome Obstructor - Re: Some of my Hive team - of course they are trying to bog this down in talks - but there's no time left to talk. Unless the Hive strikes now against the Drones, then the Uni is GONE next turn. Powerful as CPU is, the Drone attack already has captured 4(5?) bases. If Voltaire can say "oh we can talk about this later" that is dooming the CPU to a quick death. If he does the unthinkable and attacks the CPU too... well, shame on him. He can override any vote or poll and make a descicion on his own. If you beleive, then pray to Tassadar or GooglieGod. Tonight even I'm going to offer up a quick one. -Jam

Yes, and I’m just in the habit of doing that, overriding the democratic decisions of the Hive. I would not be in power as long as I have been if that was the case, I have always followed the opinion of the Hive, the Hive leads and I follow, not vice versa. And in this situation I’m afraid that your opinions are not in line with those of the Hive.

	19-03-2004 04:12									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Voltaire just posted this in the private forum. We're all doomed, it seems. Good luck CPU.

Jamski I am so disappointed with you. Of all the person. You are the least person I would think that would do this. And you claim that you are here to improve relations among people. Would you like me to root through our private forum and find some posts of yours talking about backstabbing CCs?

I have not expected that you would be such person that would deliberately do things that you know will hurt people.

	19-03-2004 04:13									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Ok, you have a point, but Voltaire can override any poll we make. Its in the "constitution". I shall be so ashamed of my faction if they vote to fight against the CPU. Of the faction and of the members. -Jam

But I wont.

	19-03-2004 04:15									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Voltaire just posted this in the private forum.

...I have nothing to say.

	19-03-2004 04:16									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire this is not helping your cause.

That is for sure. I have been willing to think about it. But what Jamski just did has smashed the last chance that I would side with him.

There is once this person who talks about honors and sportsmanship. Where is that person now?

	19-03-2004 04:21									#51
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quote: If you are referring to me, yes I have the bad habit of not able to shut up. And I admit that I am not always right. But I will not hesitate to admit if it turns out that I was wrong. And I try to think and talk to others before I vote so that I don't make the wrong decision.

And that is why I count your vote more highly than that of any other. If we lose this vote 15 to 2 and one of the 2 is yours, then it was worth all the trouble.

quote: You know what Jamski, this is completely out of line. You’re talking to other factions about internal Hive matters, I tolerate a lot and this as well, but frankly it is your fellow Hivers you should be trying to convince not the other factions. I for one an rather insulted you have tried to bully and pressure us into a decision of your liking by making this a public discussion, this is not helping your cause.

Me see dissent. Me stand on dissent.

The reason I'm doing this is so that the other human factions know exactly where we stand and where they stand. I've had enough of the dishonesty and so on.

And to be frank, it won't matter because if you do decide to do as the Drones wish and attack the CPU there won't BE an ACDG anymore. If that's what you want, then fine, but why not simply say so?

This, Voltaire, is your chance to be the leader you always wanted to be. This is your chance to stand up and say "I am an man. I was wrong. I shall lead the Hive against our common enemy."
Then we would respect you for it.

Now you want the proud and glorious Hive to simply be the dog that tries to eat the scraps Buster drops. How noble. For all your talk of honesty and brotherhood you have done nothing more than turn the Hive into Buster's dog. Of course people like being the friend of the playground bully, its better than getting kicked in the head every day, but NOW is the last chance that we can all get together and show the bullies that we actually do have spines.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 04:24									#52
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quote: There is once this person who talks about honors and sportsmanship. Where is that person now?

He is openly betraying his faction to the people of Chiron. Now, if you are not for this cause, if you are not for fighting the Drones with every last mineral, nutrient and energy credit, GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE, all you can do is go and pick the crumbs left over by the Drones and slap each other on the back and say
"Oh we played so well and won the ACDG"

-Jam

	19-03-2004 04:26									#53
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu What I don't get is what's the big difference between Drones-PUT war and CC-PEACE war?

As far as the forumlinks (datalinks) show me, it was announced. (PEACE-CPU war, I mean). Besides, I'm born in that war, I could have easily been in a Pirate's shoes at this time, if Herc didn't authorize sooner.

For the first Drone attack on PUT:

When we agreed an unification with PUT, and could see the turn, a needlejet was hanging near an empty base and a transport foil was close to the coast. We bluffed Buster out then. That attack was as well without warning. Nowhere in the forum was a message to be found about a war declaration against PUT. This time... well, I wonder how long Hive new of those plans in advance.

	19-03-2004 04:30									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski The reason I'm doing this is so that the other human factions know exactly where we stand and where they stand. I've had enough of the dishonesty and so on.

Except it is not up to you to decide what the team will do. You call our to democracy when it is to your advantage, and you blatantly trample over it when the people disagree with you.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski And to be frank, it won't matter because if you do decide to do as the Drones wish and attack the CPU there won't BE an ACDG anymore. If that's what you want, then fine, but why not simply say so?

What I want does not matter, what the Hive wants is what matters. When the Hive makes a decision, which it has not, I will be more than happy to share that decision with everyone, but for now no such decision has been made.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski This, Voltaire, is your chance to be the leader you always wanted to be. This is your chance to stand up and say "I am an man. I was wrong. I shall lead the Hive against our common enemy." Then we would respect you for it.

Don't patronize me.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Now you want the proud and glorious Hive to simply be the dog that tries to eat the scraps Buster drops. How noble. For all your talk of honesty and brotherhood you have done nothing more than turn the Hive into Buster's dog. Of course people like being the friend of the playground bully, its better than getting kicked in the head every day, but NOW is the last chance that we can all get together and show the bullies that we actually do have spines.

Everyone in the Hive knows that your words are mere sophistry and no substance. You may want to try actual rational argument next time if you want to be successful.

	19-03-2004 04:32									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski He is openly betraying his faction to the people of Chiron. Now, if you are not for this cause, if you are not for fighting the Drones with every last mineral, nutrient and energy credit, GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE, all you can do is go and pick the crumbs left over by the Drones and slap each other on the back and say "Oh we played so well and won the ACDG" -Jam

That was rude and inappropriate.

	19-03-2004 04:34									#56
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A comment to Voltaire:

At this time a small minority of players that started an attack against PEACE are among the active players of CPU. You stare yourself blind on the comments in the public forum from what you appearantly consider your adversaries on the beginning of this game.

Those are just doing that ATM: roleplaying.
The CPU decisions are executed by relatively newcomers from which it is probably the first time you meet them.

	19-03-2004 04:38									#57
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quote: This time... well, I wonder how long Hive new of those plans in advance.

At least a few turns.

quote: That was rude and inappropriate.

No, the truth has hit home. You always respond like this when a shot goes close to the bone.

Voltaire - its ok to change your mind, you won't look stupid.

Please. I love this ACDG, and if the Hive joins this dogpile on the CPU the game will already come to an end. And it will end and I will only be able to watch, and even worse, the faction I love will be the faction to blame.

Please. I can't ask anymore, I'm tired. Please for the sake of the game.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 04:42									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski No, the truth has hit home. You always respond like this when a shot goes close to the bone.

No, I say that when you do something rude and inappropriate.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Voltaire - its ok to change your mind, you won't look stupid.

Jamski, I'll change my mind when you give me a good reason to change my mind. To change ones opinions with no good reason at all, that is stupid.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Please. I love this ACDG, and if the Hive joins this dogpile on the CPU the game will already come to an end. And it will end and I will only be able to watch, and even worse, the faction I love will be the faction to blame.

You will not change the minds of your fellow team mates with these methods, if you wanted to change our policy you should have brought up rational arguments for you cause and put it to the people rather than just loading a bunch of rhetoric with emotional language and launching it at us.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Please. I can't ask anymore, I'm tired. Please for the sake of the game.

Not an argument Jamski, you should know very well that I, as well as many others, do no respond to that kind of sophistry. If you want to convince us provide rational arguments.

	19-03-2004 04:54									#59
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Ok, here's a "rational" argument.

If you want to end the game right now, attack CPU, they'll quit and the game has gone from interesting to dead in one turn cycle. Then you can bask in the praise that the Hive gets from the other factions for playing so well.

Or vote to try to save the CPU creating an interesting endgame situation which could go either way, and earn the praise of the other factions for standing up for good players, not just good playing.

Anyway, its up to you.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 05:06									#60
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Personal attacks?
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