18-03-2004 22:32									#1
	Should the Hive join the Anti-Drone Crusade ? (and save the ACDG) Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I say yes. Our friends on 'poly are more important than deals with a load of cold strangers from CGN. Let's do it. Let's set the example.

-Jam

	18-03-2004 23:14									#2
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I don't know. I have to think about it. They are all friends to me. Not cold strangers.

	18-03-2004 23:18									#3
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Ok, tell me one personal thing about any of the Drones...

Hmmm?

Now see how well you do with the CyCon and PEACE...

Now who are the strangers and who are the friends you know for a year?

-Jam

	18-03-2004 23:31									#4
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Why should personal things have anything to do with a demo game? We know that Drones have been honest and honorable. While others may not be as good as them.

	18-03-2004 23:58									#5
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I still don't like the idea. I mean a faction brutally murders another faction and then assimilated another and laughs trumphetly. It essentially posses the strength of three factions and it suddenly cries like a baby just upon hearing the other two factions will be against it?

Now compare with this. Four factions combined to beat one faction, and among those four factions there is its most trusted long term ally that it helped selflessly. What will they do? Will they fight a battle that is already lost till their last blood? Or will they surrender too?

If so, the game ends any way. Now what is a better ending? What is more fair? I'd rather see CCs cry than the Drones bleed.

	18-03-2004 23:59									#6
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Its just a simple choice : honourable strangers or loved friends.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 00:05									#7
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Sigh. I don't know. Honorable strangers may make better friends than your old friends who always want to gain something from you.

But you have striken my emotional weakness. I would hate to see Drogue and Impaler and others hurt.

	19-03-2004 00:15									#8
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I know I can't convince you with logic on this issue. I'm asking you, and the other Hive members, to support an illogical proposal, but I think its worth it for the sake of our friends and an interesting conclusion to the game.

If you want some logic :

Hive+PEACE+Uni+CyCon = Drones (fair fight)
Hive+Drones > PEACE+Uni+CyCon (unfair fight)
Hive+Drones+PEACE > Uni+CyCon. (unfair fight)

I feel like saying to the Drones "pick on someone your own size" We can stand up to the bully for the sake of our friends. The PEACE and CyCon guys were with us on the first ACDG, we know eachother for years...

Hell, what I'm trying to say is that I personally can't let them get it in the neck from Buster and co, and I really can't go over and kick them in the balls when Buster's already laid them on the floor. That's not how I treat my friends.

-Jam (on the edge of tears, as if you care)

	19-03-2004 01:05									#9
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What a great joke life has had for us. I didn't know you really looked down upon yourself this low. If you really feel that the Drones are better or equal to the four others combined, why did you let it in in the first place?

I'm now really regret about argueing against Mead's turn now. If we have had his way I guess at least nobody will say that we are only kickind somebody when they are laid on the floor. My bad I guess. Perhaps I really shouldn't have joined this game after all.

	19-03-2004 01:17									#10
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quote: Drones are faction with no roleplay, no honour, and probably no democracy since it seems to be run by Buster solely. I haven`t seen any roleplay from Drones, and they have shown to be rude and arrongant, since they have attacked us without any declaration of war or even explanation. They havent even given us a notification. Buster is insulting all ACDG players when he runs this as usual PBEM.

It is posters like this that makes all my sympathies toward the more balanced CC players go away. Personal attacks first toward the PEACE and then the Hive and then the Drones. And he dared to accuse others being rude and arrogant.

	19-03-2004 03:26									#11
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I find this post very sympathetic actually. A real human who cares about his faction's shoddy treatment speaks his mind

Every word of that quote is true.

Who would you rather play with/against? The ones who talk with passion, or the ones that post "turn sent"

-Jam

	19-03-2004 03:42									#12
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I’d like to make this clear if it wasn’t already before, so long as I am Chairman we will not back out of the permipact with the Drones, I made a promise to Buster and the Drones as a whole that this will be the way things are. As HongHu has pointed out the Drones have been honorable and loyal to the permipact and to us, they have given us no cause to break of relations with them, let alone attack them.

Everyone should understand that this is a game, and games are played in part to win. Yes friendship is involved and I know very well all of us have become close to other players in this game on our own teams and on other teams, but we have a duty and responsibility to the Hive itself, the team we have joined, to do what is in its best interest, and IMO sticking with the Drones is in our best interest. We agreed from the start to work together until the end and share victory, I see no reason to back out of that.

As for the CyCon, I feel no great love toward them that I should be swayed by your appeals to emotion Jamski. They have done many things which I considered insensitive at best, the attack and desire to eliminate PEACE being one of them.

	19-03-2004 03:44									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I find this post very sympathetic actually. A real human who cares about his faction's shoddy treatment speaks his mind Every word of that quote is true. Who would you rather play with/against? The ones who talk with passion, or the ones that post "turn sent" -Jam

I rather admire and would play against the Drones, you speak of CyCon passion, I do not see passion in them, I see bitterness. The Drones are excellent players and admirable people.

	19-03-2004 03:45									#14
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu It is posters like this that makes all my sympathies toward the more balanced CC players go away. Personal attacks first toward the PEACE and then the Hive and then the Drones. And he dared to accuse others being rude and arrogant.

On this I agree with HongHu; no matter what offence may have been committed (of which I see none) rudeness is never justified.

	19-03-2004 03:56									#15
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Jamski,

When I signed up for this team I agreed to do what was best for the Hive. I never saw this as a Apolyton vs. CGN compitition. It is not.

I signed up to fight for a Hive victory. If this means the Drones win too then so be it. From everything I have seen we agreed to a perma-pact with the Drones and they have lived up to their end of the bargain.

An Apolyton vs. CGN compitition might be the basis for a future MP ACDG (which I might join), but it is not the one I joined here.


Mead

PS
I voted. It looks like my inabilty to vote has passed.

	19-03-2004 04:09									#16
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Mead, I understand that you were not part of the first ACDG, but the CPU and PEACE members are old friends of many of us. The Drones are "outsiders" who take no part in the game except to post "turn sent" Our only loyalty to them is a promise made by the chairman.

I say its time to ditch the chairman. He's about to ruin the game for all of us.

As soon as the CPU open a save where they are attacked by Drone and Hive forces they will surrender, end of game.

If you're not enjoying the ACDG, quit now and don't ruin it for the rest of us.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 04:19									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Mead, I understand that you were not part of the first ACDG, but the CPU and PEACE members are old friends of many of us. The Drones are "outsiders" who take no part in the game except to post "turn sent" Our only loyalty to them is a promise made by the chairman. I say its time to ditch the chairman. He's about to ruin the game for all of us. As soon as the CPU open a save where they are attacked by Drone and Hive forces they will surrender, end of game. If you're not enjoying the ACDG, quit now and don't ruin it for the rest of us. -Jam

You know what, if the CPU is going to be a poor sport and attempt to blackmail us into attacking the Drones with threats of ending the game so be it, frankly if they are lowly enough to do that I really have no sympathy toward them whatsoever.

	19-03-2004 04:27									#18
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Its not blackmail you fool, its realism. Its no fun for them to play on a game that is clearly lost.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 04:32									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Its not blackmail you fool, its realism. Its no fun for them to play on a game that is clearly lost. -Jam

Then the game has come to its completion.

	19-03-2004 04:41									#20
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A completion. You have no feel for the web a game spins, the infinite conclusions that hang in the air.

Nothing is sadder than the end of a well played game, even in victory the tragedy is unbearable.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 04:43									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski A completion. You have no feel for the web a game spins, the infinite conclusions that hang in the air. Nothing is sadder than the end of a well played game, even in victory the tragedy is unbearable. -Jam

But it must end, you can only delay the inevitable for so long.

	19-03-2004 04:45									#22
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Sadly, yes. But this won't be "winning" this will just be bludgeoning the opponents to death while they turned their head.

I don't want the game to end while it CAN still be balanced.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 05:34									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski (..) The Drones are "outsiders" who take no part in the game except to post "turn sent" Our only loyalty to them is a promise made by the chairman. I say its time to ditch the chairman. He's about to ruin the game for all of us. As soon as the CPU open a save where they are attacked by Drone and Hive forces they will surrender, end of game. If you're not enjoying the ACDG, quit now and don't ruin it for the rest of us.

This statement has made me finally vote "NO". Itīs an empty statement, a personal attack on the Chairman and just generally whining.

Sorry to say that, but I wholeheartedly oppose your opinion, Jamski.

However, letīs not allow our different opinions to harm a drinking friendship . PROST

	19-03-2004 05:34									#24
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Oops, I inadvertently hit "reply with quote" instead of "edit". Sorry.

	19-03-2004 05:39									#25
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PROST Micha.

It may be an attack, but it is true. This millitary action will be the last action the Hive makes.

Goodbye ACDG

-Jam

	19-03-2004 05:54									#26
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There will come other DGs
The essential characteristic of life is itīs finity. Better we accept the unevitable... Artifically prolongening a lifespan might not be the better solution.

I also donīt believe the CPU will give up that easily. They will put up a fight and may even manage to stall the war by inviting the AI to join their fight. Thereīs still the possibility that we might fail, although it seems very small now.

Many of the other teamīs players look forward to the next demo game, at least it seems that way when you read through the public forum. If this game was about to end, we would all be united again and start a new game. I canīt see the problems you speak of, Jam...

	19-03-2004 06:01									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Micha There will come other DGs The essential characteristic of life is itīs finity. Better we accept the unevitable... Artifically prolongening a lifespan might not be the better solution. I also donīt believe the CPU will give up that easily. They will put up a fight and may even manage to stall the war by inviting the AI to join their fight. Thereīs still the possibility that we might fail, although it seems very small now. Many of the other teamīs players look forward to the next demo game, at least it seems that way when you read through the public forum. If this game was about to end, we would all be united again and start a new game. I canīt see the problems you speak of, Jam...

Excellent point. This game will end eventually, and to be quite honest I think we should try to end it in the best interests of the Hive, siding with the Drones seems in our best interests, and if the game is to end now if we side with the Drones so be it. There will be other ACDG's.

	19-03-2004 06:02									#28
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I just didn't imagine the game would end like this, in acrimony and hatred. There will be no joy in the victory, and great bitterness in the defeat.

-Jam

	19-03-2004 06:04									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I just didn't imagine the game would end like this, in acrimony and hatred. There will be no joy in the victory, and great bitterness in the defeat. -Jam

Speak for yourself. I for one will be toasting to the good fortunes and success of the Hive/Drone alliance. If it is a victory without bloodshed all the better.

	19-03-2004 06:23									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I just didn't imagine the game would end like this, in acrimony and hatred. There will be no joy in the victory, and great bitterness in the defeat. -Jam

Acrimony? Hatred?
Arenīt you exaggerating a bit too much?

I see it that way:
When the game started, everyone had the chance to join the team he wanted to be in. Then everyone worked more or less for the good of the respective faction. Now the best one is about to win, because the others have missed their chance.

The CyCons have backstabbed PEACE, almost annihilated them, forced Uni into defacto submission and are now trying to split the last remaining alliance. They went a harsh and brutal course, maybe itīs now time for the bill.

PEACE was an excellent roleplaying faction, and despite their "friendship" they were invaded by the CyCon aggressors. They will applaude our victory.

Uni had faced immense activity problems and now has been swallowed by CyCon. They just clinge to existence and deserve being invaded for the incompetence they have shown in game affairs.

Drones, especially Buster, have tought Kody and thus made it possible for us to become as powerful as we are. Itīs them who shared their knowledge with us, and it is immense knowledge as I want to add.
They have supported us by all means, and now we get the opportunity to proof that we were worth the efforts. Letīs not backstab our only ally, and the only honorable team still alive.