19-03-2004 19:48									#31
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Actually... if Ivan and Mr. Wong are willing to buy into capitalism and to trade, WTH use does North America have for supporting Continental Europe? WTH should the US risk it's servicemen in operations in the Balkans when Europe replies with derision to quid pro quo? What most Euros don't know is just how close the isolated Yank is in all of this. Somehow I suspect the Euros would not be very happy to be left alone with Ivan and Mr. Wong after the Yanks say 'fvck this, we're going home'. It would be interesting to see if Europe could figure it's own way out without the Yanks to prop them up in the face of powers that could strip them bare in a few short days.

I'm kind of surprised to see such a naive view from you, NYE. This isn't the 19th century - the US economy does not exist in a vaccuum and could not withstand withdrawing from the world. The US will always act in what it perceives to be its best interest, especially economically. Sure, the US could conceivably stop supporting Europe in matters such as the former Yugoslavia, but to suggest that they would ever just abandon Europe is ludicrous.

	19-03-2004 20:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I see no strengths whatsoever in Old Europe. They really need to get their act together before they get my respect. Did I hear the word "diplomacy." That is a fancy word for "appeasement."

Typical American dumbism

I am amazed to see how many Americans consider the non-use of force as being a sign of weakness. Truly shows too many of your folks are hardly more elaborate than cowboys

	19-03-2004 20:07									#33
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quote: The Madrid bombings have given Europe a keener understanding of acting within one’s own interests and have raised challenging questions: Does supporting the United States mean bringing Islamic terrorism to European cities? If Spain withdraws troops from Iraq, what domestic pressures will Britain, Italy and Poland face to do the same?

Bullshit. Europe has and always will be a target for terrorism, as per its history and geographical situation. Their decision to withdraw has much more to do with popular will and bad diplomacy by Bush.

quote: "It comes down to fundamental differences in our societies," said Bernhard May, an analyst at the German Council on Foreign Relations. "American society seems to be more inspired, a society with a mission. But Europe doesn’t want to go around the world telling people how to live.

Pure hypocrisy. No one wants to tell others how to live. The 'manifest destiny' is justification tool for neo-colonialism, created by the 'free market of ideas', and nothing else. Europe has given up on imperialism (mostly) in the 60s, and it's about time America does the same.

quote: Moisi said Europe and the United States might grow closer in coming years through an ironic twist. Under Russian President Vladimir V. Putin, Moscow is growing autocratic and restive as Europe integrates and becomes more of an economic power. This trend concerns European officials, some of whom believe Cold War ghosts are stirring.

It all has to do with who Russia will choose in the next Cold War: China or America. If you look at historical trends, though, there's not much wondering about this. Russia still has brains.

	19-03-2004 20:12									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman This is how America thinks the world sees it. Not how the world actually sees it. The writer continues to peddle the idea that Americans are seen as cowboys throughout the article.

Indeed, now our preconceptions tend to be more accurate, as we see Yanks as dumb zealots, with only some cowboy legacy. We've never been that spot-on

	19-03-2004 20:14									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Gay marriage is an internal American thing. No-one else cares.

Not really. Gay marriage is a hot topic in plenty of places. Wasn't last time in Canada, Belgium, and the Netherlands?

AFAIK, it's more than often cited by the mocking left as an example for American religious fundamentalism.

	19-03-2004 20:16									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I see no strengths whatsoever in Old Europe.

This 'Old Europe' Ned is talking about is the Europe that has given up on imperialism and built the most egalitarian and progressist societies in history. Very 'old', indeed.

	19-03-2004 20:20									#37
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* DinoDoc is somewhat pleased with himself that he knew before opening this thread that because it had word meaning "Fair & Balanced" in the title that it would degenerate into a collection of trolls

	19-03-2004 20:35									#38
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Did you really expect anything else where Ned is involved?

	19-03-2004 20:40									#39
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc * DinoDoc is somewhat pleased with himself that he knew before opening this thread that because it had word meaning "Fair & Balanced" in the title that it would degenerate into a collection of trolls

	19-03-2004 20:40									#40
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quote: By Jeffrey Fleishman

I'm amused. I have a good friend named Jeff Fleishman.

-Arrian

	19-03-2004 20:42									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Paul Hanson Did you really expect anything else where Ned is involved?

* DinoDoc didn't know Ned was involved before opening the thread.

But yeah as soon as I saw his post I could tell for sure where the thread was going.

	19-03-2004 20:43									#42
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Dino - Thread title was "Even Handed" not "Fair and Balanced". This implies circle jerk not massive trolling.

	19-03-2004 20:44									#43
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quote: Do these morons think they are lobbying for a vote within the greater empire? I swear sometimes I can truely feel the frustration some Yanks feel with furriners. WTF? Who ever got so fussed over the politicians and politcs of Britain, France and Germany other than Britons, French, and Germans. There is something rotten in all of this, I'm just not entirely sure what is is yet.

So true. So true. On the other hand, I've started a thread or two about the lack of leadership in Germany.

	19-03-2004 21:02									#44
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I don't think that euro's get that most americans are
happy or fine with our foreign actions

what will bring down Bush is his internal policies

Jon Miller

	19-03-2004 21:09									#45
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quote: Who ever got so fussed over the politicians and politcs of Britain, France and Germany other than Britons, French, and Germans.

*ahem* America, a year ago?

	19-03-2004 21:10									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller what will bring down Bush is his internal policies Jon Miller

And what will bring down the American people is Bush's foreign policy.

	19-03-2004 21:19									#47
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I don't think so

Jon Miller

	19-03-2004 21:24									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I don't think so Jon Miller

If you think that a successful country doesn't need friends, then you're mistaken. The point of a foreign policy is either:

a) using your might efficiently
b) making some friends

Since America's might is eroding, you should be busy using it to make some friends, not pissing them off. In other words, it always matter what other people think of your foreign policy.

	19-03-2004 21:28									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Dino - Thread title was "Even Handed" not "Fair and Balanced". This implies circle jerk not massive trolling.

Mea Culpa.

	19-03-2004 22:29									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris *ahem* America, a year ago?

Americans seem very interested in Spanish politics at the moment too.


You also have to remember that as America is the hyper-power everyone is bound to take an interest, because political decisions there will impact on what happens here, there and everywhere. This is not true, by and large, for individual European countries.

	19-03-2004 23:31									#51
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This "hyper-power" hyperbole isn't particularly descriptive.

	19-03-2004 23:38									#52
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quote: Originally posted by DanS This "hyper-power" hyperbole isn't particularly descriptive.

Replace it with 'super-power' if it makes you feel better.

	19-03-2004 23:41									#53
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I cannot tell you how happy I am that Europe has such negative feelings about the US. All these years in the EU and we were feeling unique. But now we're just a part of a greater sum. Really makes you feel you belong. But europeans were always slow on catching on anyway so they're forgiven.

	19-03-2004 23:48									#54
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3rd world nations were always first on the jealousy train.

	19-03-2004 23:50									#55
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Greece is a 1st world country, 24th in the list of developped countries in the UN (above Israel for example) and we don't like the US. Kind of breaks down your logic a bit.

	19-03-2004 23:53									#56
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And our health care system is better than say the UK one (again according to EU and UN stats) and we STILL don't like the US.

How more developped must we get to actually start like it according to your spectacular logic?

	19-03-2004 23:54									#57
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Right. Keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better.

	19-03-2004 23:55									#58
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It makes me feel no different and it's not me who's saying that. I was wondering about your logic.

	19-03-2004 23:58									#59
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I threw a statement out there. Amazing you automatically assumed it applied to Greece.

I here the sounds of "I am a big boy!, Look at me I am too big!"


It's ok pattycakes, Greece can sit at the big peoples table.

	19-03-2004 23:59									#60
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Oh right, you just threw a statement out there.