22-03-2004 17:59									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Oh, and btw, Pax, (using a hyperbole here), don't you think that killoing Hitler would be immoral?

Blah@you.

Bad move this.

	22-03-2004 18:43									#122
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does this action make Israelis safer in either the short or long term? Personsally I doubt it highly. Hence I fail to see the use of this attack. It is not justice (that would be arresting and putting him on trial), it is vengence.

	22-03-2004 18:43									#123
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Can we just give Israel and Palestine each a button to annihilate each other? Who ever presses their button first wins and the rest of the world gets some peace and quiet...

	22-03-2004 19:45									#124
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Let's see...

Is this a big loss for the world? No.
Is the world a better place without this guy? Possibly.
Did killing him solve any problem or will it bring peace to the people of Israel? No.
Will it be used as a pretext for further violence? Yes. Definitely.

Then what good did it do?

	22-03-2004 19:48									#125
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Well, well it was about time

	22-03-2004 20:32									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel "blood will flow" and "it will only enrage them more" is bullshit. It's a presumption that they were some sort of hippies beforehand. All those surrounding him Hamas "activists" anyway, so why would anything change? Oh, and btw, Pax, (using a hyperbole here), don't you think that killoing Hitler would be immoral? Killing leaders in times of war is a legitimate tactic, as long as they make strategic decision-making, and he certainly was. I think that this has been done to weaken the central authority in Hamas, before the withdrawal, and not to pander the right. ( It's hardly a balance, really )

So we presume you consider Sharon a legitimate target for assasination?

	22-03-2004 20:47									#127
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Was Yassin as valid a target as the Jewish Tourism minister that was killed a few years back?

Both were rhetorical fire breathing hateful windbags.

The difference is, if Israel had been a little more patient Yassin would have died soon anyway.

If killing one is wrong, both both are wrong - and by the way, whatever happened to "Thou shalt not murder". Let alone "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours land".

Violent subcultures are not defeated by cutting off heads. They are like hydras - for every head you cut, 2 more grow.



As for Israel surviving forever - I wouldn't put money on it.

Mind you, I wouldn't put money on Israel not surviving until wolrd oil supplies start getting tight.

Then it might make a useful bargaining chip to be thrown to the wolves.

Sorry to be vague - but I can't claim to read the future, unlike some of the posts above.

Last edited by Cruddy on 22-03-2004 at 20:55

	22-03-2004 20:48									#128
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Shame on Israel for taking any action necessary to defend itself!!

	22-03-2004 22:08									#129
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On the notion that raids are impossible- Israel launches raids in the extreemly densely populated refugee camps all the time to arrest militants-if the IDF will risk soldiers lives, and the lives of Pal. civilians to get low level militants, all of sudden this is utterly impossible with high level ones?

This is my theory- besides some real concerns about such a raid, but concerns that can't be really absolute given the evidence, this is the governments way to get around that pesky lacks of a DP. If a militant were caught and given a trial, could they be put to death given that Israel does not have a DP? but if we kill them extra-judiciously, well, what the hey.

	22-03-2004 22:38									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka I refuse to take any joy from a death of another human, but I can't say I'm losing my sleep over this.

WHO ARE YOU, AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH PEKKA!?!?

	22-03-2004 22:48									#131
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis tell that to the parents or children of the people who died while the idf was taking out it's target ...

Tell it to the parents of the children who would have died had this target not been taken out...

	22-03-2004 22:49									#132
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Why don't they use snipers instead?

	22-03-2004 22:50									#133
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I dunno - why don't you ask them?

Do you seriously think the IDF wants more civilian dead? They aren't stupid; they know what's in their best interest.

	22-03-2004 22:54									#134
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THEY ARE ****ING IDIOTS. This guy was as perfectly harmless as you can get as a member of Hamas at all. Now they've got another martyr to wave around. Thanks very much Uncle Sharon.
Demoralise my ass. The only thing this means is more and more terror and more terrorists. Nothing bloody else. Victory. Thanks.
I'm taking quite a few buses tomorrow. Yay. Plus I'll be in bloody uniform.

	22-03-2004 23:18									#135
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Ding-Dong the witch is dead

	22-03-2004 23:24									#136
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quote: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours land".

The Jewish Palastinians tryed to live peacfully with the Arab palistians.




Those Arabs were the ones who started the killins first.

Who you trying to place blame?

	22-03-2004 23:31									#137
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docfeelgood - not exactly. I'm not saying the jews are solely to blame - but they're not exactly blameless either.

	22-03-2004 23:37									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich Do you seriously think the IDF wants more civilian dead?

I don't think they care. They're only Palestinians, it's not like they're humans. Better to kill large numbers of collaterals than risk an Israeli.

I happen to believe there is a wing of the IDF, as well as the Israeli government, that believes the conflict is in their best interests. As long as there is conflict, they are justified in remaining in control of the territories, which means they can continue to expand the settlements and continue stealing Palestinian resources.

	22-03-2004 23:39									#139
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quote: docfeelgood - not exactly. I'm not saying the jews are solely to blame - but they're not exactly blameless either.

How you figure

	22-03-2004 23:39									#140
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Oh, and I apologise for the possible threadjack. Let's please keep to the point

	22-03-2004 23:42									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich Tell it to the parents of the children who would have died had this target not been taken out...

yeah, would have ...

	22-03-2004 23:44									#142
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Shame on Israel for taking any action necessary to defend itself!!

Palestinians don't seem to be incredibly pleased, and Hamas hasn't exactly dissolved because of this either.
In fact, I'd say in short term is makes Israel *less* safe.

	22-03-2004 23:45									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood The Jewish Palastinians tryed to live peacfully with the Arab palistians.

NOt really. While it was the Arabs who first resorted to armed violence, it is not like there was "peaceful" coexistance- think why most Brit. whitepapers writen during their mandate (and all the time as they prepared to create a Jewish homeland) were not very positive about the zionists. For exmaple, the zionist labor movement boycotted any Jewish business that dared employ Arabs "with jewish money", sop as more efficient modern industry built with foreing investment drove the arab artisans out of work, they could not find work at these new factories becuase the owners were bullied into employing only jews, not arabs. As you may guess, this created mass resentment among the ranks of the now unemployed or impoverished.

Think of it this way-imagine any town USA- a group of immigrants starts coming into town-they don;t really hang out-they keep to themselves a lot, and little by little they begin to build a parallel town-then, with outside investment they begin to take hold of the economy, but they do not allow the intial and much more numerous inhabitant to share equally. Add ot this that you know the aim of these new immigrants is to make the town THEIR town, a town for them-with you having rights fine, but the town is still for THEM. Now tell me if you think the original inhabitants will be happy with this sort of outcome?

	22-03-2004 23:47									#144
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quote: I happen to believe there is a wing of the IDF, as well as the Israeli government, that believes the conflict is in their best interests. As long as there is conflict, they are justified in remaining in control of the territories, which means they can continue to expand the settlements and continue stealing Palestinian resources.

I happen to believe that the Arab Palastinians just want to kill.
If there were no Jews Palastinians in Israel they would be killing each other.

	22-03-2004 23:51									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris OK guys, I'm talking very long term here, like 100 years at least. Don't you know that most peoples in history stopped existing after being enslaved/massacred? By virtue of its geographical position and historical hatred, Israel is the perfect meat.

Israel will most likely annihilate every Arab population center should they try anything like this. By the way, in 100 years we won't be on oil, and the Arab world really hits rock bottom.

	22-03-2004 23:52									#146
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A french journalist said that's nothing. around 40 to 50 more years of violence...

	22-03-2004 23:53									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha Israel will most likely annihilate every Arab population center should they try anything like this. By the way, in 100 years we won't be on oil, and the Arab world really hits rock bottom.

And we don't? (without oil that is)

	22-03-2004 23:59									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris I don't know, I'm just extrapolating from the fact that Israel is outnumbered in a 40 to 1 ration. That'll cost you eventually. Maybe the Arabs will get some kind of alliance with China?

Hmm. Last I heard, China was busy cracking down on Muslim militants in Xinjiang Province (I think that's the correct name ... anyway, it's one of the most western provinces in China). So long as that continues, I don't forsee any possibility of an Arab-China allliance. Unless, of course, the good Muslim folks in said province become, well, expendable for the greater good.

Gatekeeper

	23-03-2004 00:03									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood I happen to believe that . . .

That's far too simplistic, but it does fit with the agenda of those who don't want to see that the Israelis are behaving badly and that the Palestinians, whatever their poblems, have very real greivences.

	23-03-2004 00:06									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Hmm. Last I heard, China was busy cracking down on Muslim militants in Xinjiang Province (I think that's the correct name ... anyway, it's one of the most western provinces in China). So long as that continues, I don't forsee any possibility of an Arab-China allliance. Unless, of course, the good Muslim folks in said province become, well, expendable for the greater good. Gatekeeper

China and Pakistan are very close.