26-03-2004 02:20									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Thanks to Asher's ad campaign in his posts, the worldwide ipod mini release has been delayed to July as US demand is so strong that Apple is having trouble keeping up with demand.

What's really funny is it's already out of date, there's a 0.75" 4GB harddrive now, instead of the mini's 1".

	26-03-2004 02:29									#62
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Then you'll just have to wait for the ipod micro.

	26-03-2004 02:41									#63
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Anyway, I suppose we could write to these guys and have Asher put on the ADKC.

http://www.macobserver.com/appledeathknell/

	26-03-2004 02:48									#64
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The Money article was pretty good, if you've read it.

It mentions actual computer and software sales are down for Apple, and it's making its money these days off the iPod. But iPod success is not expected to last, particularly once other online music stores become more pervasive (an example being Microsoft's and Walmart's), that people will become upset that they are forced to use Apple's more expensive store.

Plus, we all understand how trends work, don't we? At one point, it will become less cool to be part of the flock that has an iPod, and people will question why they're paying so much for a device wihch does so little in comparison to competitors.

	26-03-2004 03:23									#65
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People have been saying Apple is doomed for ten years. Yet somehow they manage to do OK and are still solvent. So please forgive me if I'm a little sceptical.

Makes me wonder if it's wishful thinking on the part of the doom mongers. But who cares...

As I said before - I don't believe that there is any real money in these music stores. Apple's is a loss leader for the ipod and it is barely breaking even despite 50 million in sales (far far ahead of what anyone else is doing). ipod sales, however, are through the roof and presumably the forthcoming G5 laptops will do well. Apple's only real problem is moving their product line to the G5 as soon as possible.

I expect that some of the other stores will merge, probably under Napster's banner, or perhaps Microsoft will buy them out. That Buymusic will be the first to go.

Besides, Apple will come up with something else once the ipod thing dies out. Having said that, I reckon it has another couple of years in it.

	26-03-2004 06:33									#66
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quote: Glaser also applauded actions taken by European regulators to limit Microsoft's ability to bundle technology into Windows. Real has been directly affected by the practice, because it makes a competing media player. "I think it is a step in the right direction. It is not transcendent," he said. "The specific solutions have not been announced yet, but the outcome suggests that the European regulators did the right thing for the right reasons."

Great article, Glonkie.

	26-03-2004 06:44									#67
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Indeed.

I also applaud the EU's actions. Fining Microsoft less than a quarter of their quarterly profit, about 1% of their current cash holdings, it's less than a traffic ticket in my view.

Not to mention EU's resolution forces MS to offer two versions of Windows, but keep them both at the same price. The version without WMP will simply provide a link to download WMP9 the first time a media file is encountered.

You have to love Europe's brilliance.

How many years did it take them to do this, too? It really is incredible.

	26-03-2004 06:45									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon People have been saying Apple is doomed for ten years.

And look at Apple ten years ago compared to now.

Marketshare has taken a nosedive, investors are not pleased, Apple has resorted to gimicks and false advertising to stay alive.

	26-03-2004 06:50									#69
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They're making money.

Doing so in the face of an anticompetitive monopoly which has engaged in illegal acts to drive its competitors out of business is a reasonable achievement.

And investors are quite pleased recently, the stock has been doing quite well.

I wouldn't be worried about Apple. They'll still be around in one form or another in ten years. I'd worry more about your side - I'll say it again, OSS will eat them up piece by piece. Look for "Winux" in a few years.

	26-03-2004 06:59									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon They're making money. Doing so in the face of an anticompetitive monopoly which has engaged in illegal acts to drive its competitors out of business is a reasonable achievement. And investors are quite pleased recently, the stock has been doing quite well. I wouldn't be worried about Apple. They'll still be around in one form or another in ten years. I'd worry more about your side - I'll say it again, OSS will eat them up piece by piece. Look for "Winux" in a few years.

That's utter nonsense.

Microsoft's marketshare, despite what you want to believe, is increasing STILL. Apple's is decreasing STILL.

I'm not sure why you'd think there'd be a "Winux". If you ask any academic or anyone aside from Linus who's worth their salt, they'd blast Linux's monotlithic kernel architecture that was declared obsolete over a decade ago. (BSD/Darwin and WinNT/2K/XP are both microkernels).

They'd blast Linux's scalability problems, mainly due to it being monolithic. They'd blast Linux's tolerance to low-latency media capabilities, which is abysmal compared to WinXP and OS X.

Microsoft doesn't have anything to worry about. Even if Linux, OpenOffice, etc. all become competent on the desktop, Microsoft can match it with ease. Companies like IBM invest hundreds of millions into OSS every year, it's not inconceivable that MS could start giving away Windows and Office if forced to, and still make money like IBM does.

The fact is, "Open Source" software means nothing to most people, and will continue to mean nothing. People don't care how it's developed.

	26-03-2004 07:04									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Microsoft doesn't have anything to worry about. Even if Linux, OpenOffice, etc. all become competent on the desktop, Microsoft can match it with ease. Companies like IBM invest hundreds of millions into OSS every year, it's not inconceivable that MS could start giving away Windows and Office if forced to, and still make money like IBM does.

That would be because of revenue streams made possible by their monopolistic actions in the fist place.

	26-03-2004 08:28									#72
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It's cheap and it's not owned by anyone. Those make it very attractive.

Still, that's my prognosis and I'm quite prepared to wait and see. I've been pretty impressed with some of the OSS stuff I've downloaded. The OS X port of Abiword is coming along nicely.

Anyway, didn't Microsoft say that Linux was like cancer? If so, I'm betting on cancer.

	26-03-2004 08:30									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon It's cheap and it's not owned by anyone. Those make it very attractive. Still, that's my prognosis and I'm quite prepared to wait and see. I've been pretty impressed with some of the OSS stuff I've downloaded. The OS X port of Abiword is coming along nicely. Anyway, didn't Microsoft say that Linux was like cancer? If so, I'm betting on cancer.

Microsoft said the GPL was viral by nature, which is true if you look at it this way. If you insert GPL code into a larger software system, that entire software system must be open sourced.

I've been impressed by some OSS software, but I've also been impressed by commercial software (usually, much more frequently).

	26-03-2004 08:33									#74
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I thought they compared it to cancer...

...or was it communism,...

...or Amway???

	26-03-2004 08:37									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I thought they compared it to cancer... ...or was it communism,... ...or Amway???

Yeah, isn't it wonderful how Open Source advocates twist everything?

The comment was calling the GPL Viral.

This somehow transforms into calling Linux cancerous.

It comes from the SDK Terms of Service for Mobile Internet Toolkit:

quote: (c) Open Source. Recipient's license rights to the Software are conditioned upon Recipient (i) not distributing such Software, in whole or in part, in conjunction with Potentially Viral Software (as defined below); and (ii) not using Potentially Viral Software (e.g. tools) to develop Recipient software which includes the Software, in whole or in part. For purposes of the foregoing, "Potentially Viral Software" means software which is licensed pursuant to terms that: (x) create, or purport to create, obligations for Microsoft with respect to the Software or (y) grant, or purport to grant, to any third party any rights to or immunities under Microsoft's intellectual property or proprietary rights in the Software. By way of example but not limitation of the foregoing, Recipient shall not distribute the Software, in whole or in part, in conjunction with any Publicly Available Software. "Publicly Available Software" means each of (i) any software that contains, or is derived in any manner (in whole or in part) from, any software that is distributed as free software, open source software (e.g. Linux) or similar licensing or distribution models; and (ii) any software that requires as a condition of use, modification and/or distribution of such software that other software distributed with such software (A) be disclosed or distributed in source code form; (B) be licensed for the purpose of making derivative works; or (C) be redistributable at no charge. Publicly Available Software includes, without limitation, software licensed or distributed under any of the following licenses or distribution models, or licenses or distribution models similar to any of the following: (A) GNU's General Public License (GPL) or Lesser/Library GPL (LGPL), (B) The Artistic License (e.g., PERL), (C) the Mozilla Public License, (D) the Netscape Public License, (E) the Sun Community Source License (SCSL), and (F) the Sun Industry Standards License (SISL).

	26-03-2004 08:44									#76
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Apparently Ballmer did say "Linux is a cancer" in 2001. My apologies.

Though Ballmer is notorious for exaggerating. Microsoft's official position is the GPL and similar licenses are "viral" in that if any piece of GPL code "infects" a commercial product, the entire product must be open sourced under the GPL.

	26-03-2004 09:42									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Doesn't it frustrate you as an end-user when the company who makes the products you use artificially and intentionally restricts you from shopping at other online stores?

None of the online stores I know of offer high-quality Vorbis files for 10 cents a pop anyways.

The way I see things, WMA is a threat to open exchange of information much like electing Hitler is a threat to democracy.^-^

	26-03-2004 10:03									#78
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo None of the online stores I know of offer high-quality Vorbis files for 10 cents a pop anyways. The way I see things, WMA is a threat to open exchange of information much like electing Hitler is a threat to democracy.^-^

WMA isn't a threat to open exchange of information, because DRM is optional.

There is not supposed to be an open exchange of information with copyright-protected material, hence why DRM exists.

People who are anti-DRM are either incomprehensibly stupid, intolerably naive, or simply trolls.

	26-03-2004 10:21									#79
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Oooh, can I be intolerably naive? Please? Pretty please?

I guess DRM could be tolerable if DMCA were repealed.

	26-03-2004 10:22									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Asher WMA isn't a threat to open exchange of information, because DRM is optional.

Of course, it will remain so for eternity. We can count on Microsoft.

	26-03-2004 10:26									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Of course, it will remain so for eternity. We can count on Microsoft.

Of course it will remain so for eternity. If future versions such as WMA10 make DRM mandatory (stupid, not feasable, but I'm just supposing), people would just continue to use WMA9.

Simple, isn't it?

	26-03-2004 10:29									#82
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Doesn't the EULA of Windows XP have a sub clause that says, "If this product causes complete system failure, Microsoft will not be liable and I will realize that I have been ****ed in the ass"?

Wait... every software EULA says that.

But Microsoft are better, they follow through on the promise.

	26-03-2004 10:30									#83
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Monopolies in the domain of computing are a threat to the free exchange of information - much more so than non-monopolies, in any case.

	26-03-2004 10:33									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Monopolies in the domain of computing are a threat to the free exchange of information - much more so than non-monopolies, in any case.

The problem is, this is a nice sweeping philosophical statement but it doesn't make much sense if you care to think about it.

Most of the server apps out there (which distribute information) are not Microsoft products.

Screw the high-level philosophy and get to the real meat -- give me an example of how Microsoft is a "threat to the free exchange of information". Not hypothetical doomsday crap, tell me using facts and figures of what can be supported by evidence.

	26-03-2004 10:33									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Of course it will remain so for eternity. If future versions such as WMA10 make DRM mandatory (stupid, not feasable, but I'm just supposing), people would just continue to use WMA9. Simple, isn't it?

Yes, especially since Microsoft is bound to make it easy to downgrade for computer illiterates who buy new boxes.

	26-03-2004 10:34									#86
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Hysterical doomsday crap.

	26-03-2004 10:36									#87
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Yes, especially since Microsoft is bound to make it easy to downgrade for computer illiterates who buy new boxes.

Why would a computer illiterate know or care what DRM is?

DRM is seamless to people. You can still burn it, you can still transfer it to your MP3 players.

The only people throwing a hissy fit about DRM are zit-faced internet pirates, zit-faced tinfoil-hat wearing conspiracy theorists, and zit-faced morons who don't know what they're talking about.

	26-03-2004 10:41									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The problem is, this is a nice sweeping philosophical statement but it doesn't make much sense if you care to think about it.

Let's see.

quote: Most of the server apps out there (which distribute information) are not Microsoft products.

Your point is that Microsoft is not a monopoly. Which pretty much implies that you agree on the danger posed by monopolies - your strategy is to demonstrate that Microsoft is not one.
BTW, that has always been Gates' mantra: he never cared to defend the idea of a monopoly, but he has always claimed that Microsoft isn't one.

quote: Screw the high-level philosophy and get to the real meat -- give me an example of how Microsoft is a "threat to the free exchange of information". Not hypothetical doomsday crap, tell me using facts and figures of what can be supported by evidence.

First, I'm quite surprised by your statement about server software. Didn't you bring the numbers a few weeks ago to demonstrate that Microsoft had the larger market share in server OSes?

The theory about Microsoft is simple. Sociology tells us (with nice proofs) that means of communication are the driving force behind history. Study of capitalism shows that markets tend towards consolidation. Current facts are: Microsoft is a big fatass insanely rich company, that has the potential ability to achieve unprecedented control over means of communications (i.e., the software behind the hardware). By virtue of market consolidation, it very likely will.

	26-03-2004 10:44									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Screw the high-level philosophy and get to the real meat -- give me an example of how Microsoft is a "threat to the free exchange of information". Not hypothetical doomsday crap, tell me using facts and figures of what can be supported by evidence.

Blah blah blah. Doc/xls/ppt undocumented. Vast troves of documents will become unopenable once Microsoft goes out of business and hardware capable of running current applications becomes hard to come by.

Recent patent on their ripoff of SVG/XUL.

A truly thorough DRM scheme would be used by RIAA/MPAA to squelch independent competitors.

Recent patent on FAT. NTFS still undocumented.

I guess the fact that IE doesn't understand HTML, CSS, Javascript, or PNG can't count because anyone can install a browser.

Ach, whatever. I'm going to sleep.

	26-03-2004 10:45									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Let's see. Your point is that Microsoft is not a monopoly. Which pretty much implies that you agree on the danger posed by monopolies - your strategy is to demonstrate that Microsoft is not one.

My strategy is to demonstrate that the comment is not relevant.

I'm of the camp that believes if Microsoft was truly a monopoly, there would be no Linux and there would be no Apple. I'm always continually perplexed by morons who chant about how everyone should switch to Linux -- clearly implying a choice -- while at the same time claiming Microsoft is a monopoly, leaving no room for choice.

quote: First, I'm quite surprised by your statement about server software. Didn't you bring the numbers a few weeks ago to demonstrate that Microsoft had the larger market share in server OSes?

Server OSes SOLD.

I was speaking about the actual applications which distribute the information -- the HTTP Servers (which run on both Windows and *nix). Apache is far and away the #1 HTTP server.

quote: The theory about Microsoft is simple.

Did you miss the very obvious part telling you to not bother with theory and high-level crap?

The reason everyone keeps going back to those in anti-MS arguments is they have nothing else. They're relegated to "what-ifs", which is hardly substance for a real argument.