25-03-2004 08:01									#1
	Ahhh the power of Artemis Full PM-box? Change here!

Man that Temple of Artemis sure works wonders for ya. Putting a temple in each city (culture included) is a great boost for your empire, keeping your citizens in your newest cities happy longer. But the greatest thing about this wonder is the culture it gives to your individual cities. I often play for a cultural victory, and its a lot harder without it. I overall think this was a great wonder, but possibly it could cost 600 shields instead of 500, because unless I'm very lucky, a computer builds it first and from then on out I'm culturally screwed.

What do you guys think about the balance for this wonder?

	25-03-2004 12:10									#2
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I would think the that if the price was higher it would really be useless. Those temples are temp and will not have the lifespan to get the double culture for long.

I suppose at the levels under emperor, it is more usefull as research is slower and it won't be obsolete as quickly.

Above emperor, you just won't be building it.

	25-03-2004 14:45									#3
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For most setups ToA just isn't worth its cost now, let alone making it more expensive.

Last edited by DrSpike on 25-03-2004 at 15:33

	25-03-2004 15:27									#4
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It is more valuable

a) for a non-religious civ than for a religious (obviously)
b) the larger the map size is, because in order to get some output from the additional citizens (except culture), the cities need not to be completely corrupt, which is more likely the higher the OCN is
c) the less the landmasses are (as big landmasses with many civs speed up research), although I don't remember if their effect concerns cities on the same continent or all cities.
d) the easier the difficulty level is, in two ways: first, the research go slower and second, OCN is higher, too

So to bring an example, the value for the Mongols on a large continents map on Regent should be higher than for the Japanese on a tiny pangea map on Emperor.

	26-03-2004 00:39									#5
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I actually think it may be more harmful than helpful for the cultural victory.

I avoided building temples and instead went for this Wonder. Net result: When I got Education (or whichever one it is that invalidates this wonder), all my "temples" disappeared, results in disorder all over the place, and in 2/3 of those cities I have missed multiple turns of built up turns towards doubling the culture from temples (since I would have otherwise built them there).

Net result by endgame is considerably less culture IMO.

	26-03-2004 01:35									#6
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Proper planning is important for the use of any happiness wonder that expires, and this most definately inculdes Artemis.

Agreeded that you won't have nearly as much doubling of cultural with Temples with this wonder, but on the other hand you'll have many more turns with some culture generated, and if you combine Artemis with a Libary campaign, especally as Scientific, you can have many more doubled Libary cultures.

Yes, worth a lot more to non-Religious civs than Religious ones.

Also worth more on Larger maps than smaller ones due to the increased tech costs. The more cities increasing tech discovery rate don't outweigh the larger tech costs until late in the Middle Ages after the core cities have Universitys.

Well, more civs on the same landmass helps reseach but not nearly as much compared to pre-Conquests. Mostly because of the delay on contact trading but also the 50 turn compared to the old 40 turn rule. What I'm actually noticing now in Pangenas with a lot of civs now is that very few AI civs are staying on the cutting edge of science. (The ones that are Seafaring and built naval units to discover the rest of the players on the landmass.)