26-03-2004 09:02									#1
	Triggering Our GA Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

There is an elite GCA Spear to the west of Equilibrium. The GCA Galley has been disbanded... which means that it's either stuck there until disbanded or destroyed by some means.

One of those means is us killing it with a NM... which would trigger our GA instantly. Since we're still "at war" with GCA, this would be a legitimate way to trigger our GA (as opposed to do doing it cooperatively with CFC's help).

Assuming we can keep that Spear in a situation where we can kill it to trigger our GA, do we want to? When would we want to? Obviously, we would not want to do so now, or even soon. But this is an option we can look at.

We would still have a backup plan to trigger it by other means (via Lighthouse/Mags build in HoD) according to the previous schedule, but this is a way to help control things better (without having to wait 45 turns).

What does everyone think of this?

	26-03-2004 09:23									#2
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How long will that spear be there?
Would CFC kill it first?
Would GCA disband it if we marched our Mercs up next to it?

And most important: WHEN do we want to trigger our GA?

If it's soonish, this is a great idea. If it's 20+ turns, then let it die and let's continue with our Wonder-Trigger plans.

--Togas

	26-03-2004 09:29									#3
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SIDENOTE: CFC may want to use their Riders to kill that spear and start their own GA.

We should hold off on telling CFC about the spear until we decide if we want to "claim" it or not.

--Togas

	26-03-2004 09:29									#4
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In less than 20 turns, we will still have a LOT of Infant cities that a GA will do no good with. Also, the current timing of the GA is almost perfect for us. IMHO, the only best time after then is in Industral era and that might be waiting too long, with the way things have been going in this game.

[EDIT] If CFC wants to kill that spear, let them. Likely, they will disband it soon anyways. [/edit]

MoI E_T

	26-03-2004 09:35									#5
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NO NO NO ...

I am sick of playing games with GCA.

We finally have peace.
And we have a wonder plan in place to start our GA.

Just let it be.

	26-03-2004 10:10									#6
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Totally agreed with Hot_Enamel. Stop letting GCA get inside our head with this stuff and stick with the wonder GA plans that we've been talking about for months.

E_T has his plan to make us powerful...I suggest we let him do it.

	26-03-2004 10:12									#7
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This isn't a plan about getting rid of the Spear or GCA's influence on this continent, it's a plan to trigger our GA...

	26-03-2004 10:17									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Trip This isn't a plan about getting rid of the Spear or GCA's influence on this continent, it's a plan to trigger our GA...

Right...as I said I suggest we continue with E_T's plan and all the discussion we've had for months for wonder triggering our golden age. If we trigger it right now it's suboptimal. If we wait for the palace jump and to get some infrastructure built up then our GA will be all the more powerful when it happens.

As to messing with GCA, that's just a sidenote that I don't think we should get into.

	26-03-2004 10:47									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill Right...as I said I suggest we continue with E_T's plan and all the discussion we've had for months for wonder triggering our golden age. If we trigger it right now it's suboptimal. If we wait for the palace jump and to get some infrastructure built up then our GA will be all the more powerful when it happens. As to messing with GCA, that's just a sidenote that I don't think we should get into.

Ditto

Trip give it up. Just tell CFC about it and let them get rid of it. I hate having the stench of GCA around anyway.

E_T has a plan, lets just execute it.

	26-03-2004 10:53									#10
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What makes everyone think CFC is so anxious to kill it...

	26-03-2004 11:00									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Trip What makes everyone think CFC is so anxious to kill it...

If they aren't we should, just get rid of the dam thing.

	26-03-2004 11:12									#12
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Well, there are reasons to get rid of it and reasons to let it stay:

Reasons to get rid of it:

* It's currently clearing fogged tiles where barb camps would otherwise form and provide income to Apolyton and CFC.
* If CFC kills it with a Rider, they could start their GA. Otherwise, their GA is something they have very little control over, seeing as we're building all of the industrious wonders they would otherwise use to start their GA and they have no real guarantee of being able to start their GA with riders unless they participate in an invasion of the other continent and have a victorious rider unit (while waiting for GWT to invade our continent may rather inopportune timing compared to having the boost ahead of time).

Reasons to let it stay:

* Attacking it means at least 5 turns of war with GCA, more if they manage to use a suicide galley to at least skirmish with either us or CFC in that time period. Unlikely, to be sure, that a war would last longer than 5 turns, but possible.

* We don't want our GA yet and CFC may not want their own yet, either.

	26-03-2004 11:40									#13
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Let it stay. Aside from it preventing easy barb camps its not in the way. Besides, its costing them 1gpt (or it atleast counts as one of their "free" unit support. Its causing them more harm than good.

	26-03-2004 13:15									#14
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We should not be shure to get the wonders we planning to, dont forget that they are at war on the other continent. And some of them are extremely "lucky" in getting great leaders.

	26-03-2004 14:36									#15
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Ture, but they lack the tech needed to build the wonders we are talking about. The plan right now would make it so we build the wonder before the "lucky" ones get a chance.

	26-03-2004 19:24									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Well, there are reasons to get rid of it and reasons to let it stay: Reasons to get rid of it: * It's currently clearing fogged tiles where barb camps would otherwise form and provide income to Apolyton and CFC. * If CFC kills it with a Rider, they could start their GA. Otherwise, their GA is something they have very little control over, seeing as we're building all of the industrious wonders they would otherwise use to start their GA and they have no real guarantee of being able to start their GA with riders unless they participate in an invasion of the other continent and have a victorious rider unit (while waiting for GWT to invade our continent may rather inopportune timing compared to having the boost ahead of time). Reasons to let it stay: * Attacking it means at least 5 turns of war with GCA, more if they manage to use a suicide galley to at least skirmish with either us or CFC in that time period. Unlikely, to be sure, that a war would last longer than 5 turns, but possible. * We don't want our GA yet and CFC may not want their own yet, either.

Further reasons to get rid of it:

-It will tie down our units because it needs to be herded.

-Sooner or later Lucky wont be able to help himself and he will want to "do something" with it. Unless he disbands it which I hope is the plan he has.

I can wait a few turns but 40 to 50 turns of using our units for herding duty is too much, I would rather have that area to hunt barbs in and generate some cash.

But thats just me and my opinion. I dont like his units stinking up our continent

	26-03-2004 19:47									#17
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Wait and see what he does with it, for now let CFC know so they can decide whats best for them.

If its still there in 10 turns, or it starts on a pillage spree, then its time to nuke it.

	27-03-2004 01:44									#18
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I suspect the moment Lucky sees Numidians approach the spear he'll suspect we want to trigger our GA and will want to disband it.

However, we can also use this to LURE him into disbanding it. Just send some cats and NM close to the spear (say, send a reg NM escorted by a vet Knight).

	30-03-2004 03:43									#19
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Or, Lucky may decide that it would hurt us to trigger our GA now (IMO, now is not the time) and attack a numidian with the spear. Not especially likely, mind you, but possible. I'd rather not find out.

Personally, I'm all for triggering our GA via completion of the Magellan (or the Lighthouse, though I much prefer Magellan), as discussed in the thread on that issue.

-Arrian

	30-03-2004 05:06									#20
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quote: Or, Lucky may decide that it would hurt us to trigger our GA now (IMO, now is not the time) and attack a numidian with the spear. Not especially likely, mind you, but possible. I'd rather not find out.

This brings up another very real possibility: he reloads to attack with the spear and win!