26-03-2004 18:53									#1
	Questions Got spare money?

can someone tell me if the science bonusses from science buildings (the 50% or 25%) count towards the science from gold too ?
so if i make 100 gold, 60 go into science and a i have an academy, will it give me an additional 30 science points (50% of the 60) ?

also, is there any thread for such questions ? i tried the multiplayer strategy guide, but it seems to be closed.

	27-03-2004 01:51									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm almost certain it doesn't have the science building bonus applied to the gold in the city. I believe the CTP program takes all the gold you generate in a turn, lumps into into one number, THEN takes 60% of it (in your example). The science building bonuses only apply to scientists and population within the city -- I think

	27-03-2004 01:56									#3
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quote: Originally posted by quinns I'm almost certain it doesn't have the science building bonus applied to the gold in the city. I believe the CTP program takes all the gold you generate in a turn, lumps into into one number, THEN takes 60% of it (in your example). The science building bonuses only apply to scientists and population within the city -- I think

hmm. then science buildings are even more useless, right ?

	27-03-2004 04:50									#4
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No in fact if you look at the cities tab you can see that in fact, say a city of 356 gold may only have a science count of 18. Now if you build an improvement to the science in that city, you will see the say acadamy build will give you +9 science for that city for 27 science. Add in the extra bonus, say 1 science per citizen, a city of 10, would be 37 science in total. Not forgeting the maintenance cost for the improvement.

So lets say only 10 of 30 cities are producing science. Build academys in the rest of the cities, watch your science soar. These cities may have 3 gold so one science each or two, now your have say 20 extrat science points plus the pop. bonus, nice. Do the same with markets and banks in long easy games.

So bottom line 356 gold only 18 science, add improvements 37 science, gold does not change science does. So improvements to gold or science count as individual bonuses towards the specific thing. So gold will always count for science when you apply it that way. This also over laps with happiness in an interesting way.

Try playing a game without trade, your civ can be powerful in science and gold if you figure out the formula for building order.

Anyone should be able to beat deity without trade, just market places, temple, acadamys etc.

Try it and watch the science, gold, happiness interaction.

Last edited by blackice on 27-03-2004 at 04:57

	27-03-2004 04:57									#5
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thanks blackice.
i also tried it in a test game meanwhile and got the same result. (naturally)

so what does this mean towards the decision of when and where to build science buildings ? build academy and the like in cities with big sizes, not necessarily with much gold, where you can ideally withdraw a few workers and make them scientists ?

	27-03-2004 04:59									#6
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No biggy an interesting part of the game for me.

	27-03-2004 06:16									#7
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I will usually wait until a city is size 5 before I build acadamies and publishing houses. The science bonus starts to outway the gold cost then.

Also, cities that are capitalizing goes straight to your gold surplus, none of it is used for science. So if you are having a loss of gold, set a city or two to capitalize, none of that extra gold will be used for science but it will keep you from losing money and prevent a major revolt.

	27-03-2004 07:35									#8
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Exactly

	27-03-2004 07:52									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Nimrod I will usually wait until a city is size 5 before I build acadamies and publishing houses. The science bonus starts to outway the gold cost then. Also, cities that are capitalizing goes straight to your gold surplus, none of it is used for science. So if you are having a loss of gold, set a city or two to capitalize, none of that extra gold will be used for science but it will keep you from losing money and prevent a major revolt.

Yes!

Also, and IIRC Brother Blackice advised me on this years ago,

Take the CITY CLOCK and shelve it, for the minimal 1+ gold per pop count doesnt do all that much when the maint. cost is also figured in.

Televisions, mind you, are a different story at 5+ gold per POP count in a city

Great discussion, because, ahem, those science building do offer an attractive alternative to wasted production of a pirateable commodity (BEING TRADE ROUTE/CARAVANS)

Keep those questions coming Math an we will all learn together

Peace

Grandpa Troll

	27-03-2004 10:32									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll Televisions, mind you, are a different story at 5+ gold per POP count in a city Peace Grandpa Troll

Only at size 10 since the cost is 50

	27-03-2004 15:16									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Nimrod Only at size 10 since the cost is 50

well, marketplace and bank bring the break-even point already down to POP 5. that is, if marketplace and bank are useful without television too

so the (one) conclusion seems to be to not necessarily build science buildings in your trade cities, but rather in your bigger cities, right ?

	27-03-2004 18:13									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician well, marketplace and bank bring the break-even point already down to POP 5. that is, if marketplace and bank are useful without television too so the (one) conclusion seems to be to not necessarily build science buildings in your trade cities, but rather in your bigger cities, right ?

Correct, Biggercities, and if you have a great growth potential, a "suggestion" would be to put smaller cities on infrastructure for PW increases and then simply "reinvest" the accrued PW into the smaller cities as to grow them bigger.

~sigh~ then of course the bigger the city the more unhappiness and then more buildings with more costs to reduce the associated costs..

Peace

Grandpa Troll

	28-03-2004 00:46									#13
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City improvements that exclusively give science bonuses like academies, publishing houses and universities are a quite powerful factor to drammatically improve your science.

Academy: +50% science, +1/2 science per citizen, 4 gold maintenance cost.
Publishing House: +25%, +1/2 science per citizen, 6 gold maintenance cost.
University: +50% science, 12 gold maintenance cost.

Note that the government type does affect raw science as well, so a city with a worker assigned to science under Tyranny will give 10 points of science while under Theocrasy will give 12.

Practically it seems that a city of population of 5 and above with an academy does offer more science than it costs. The real effect although comes from cities with academies, publishing houses and universities with at list 1 worker assigned to science. A city of population of 10 for example with all the above improvements and 4 workers assigned to science, under Theocrasy, would give you more than 200 science points. I remember a city of population of 14 with all the above plus Galileo's Telescope that produced 600 science points!

Generally, cities that have no production or gold generation value, cities that are surrounded with sea and/or grassland and can grow fast are good for becoming science cities, thus build science city improvements and assign workers to science into them. You can really boost science with such cities. Trade centers (cities with many goods of the same type) and science cities are the key for a strong science.