27-03-2004 05:18									#1
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I've been checking some old threads but I can't seem to find anything on population loss due to chemical warfare. Do perimeter defences stop population loss due to nerve gas attack at a base? Does anything stop it? Do you lose population every time you are attacked by nerve gas or only if you lose the battle?

	27-03-2004 06:19									#2
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I'm pretty sure you lose population even if the defensive unit wins. In my last nerve gas game (mind worm armageddon) Yang lose population even if my chopper was killed.

As for amount of pop loss, it usually went something like:

10
7
4
2
1
dead

or

8
5
3
2
1
dead

and of course all of his bases had perimetr defenses

	27-03-2004 06:38									#3
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I believe that you have to win the battle to inflict the population damage, but I am far from certain, not being a big user of the nerve gas.

I also understand that having an MW (and/or probably any other NL unit) in the base being attacked will mitigate/eliminate the population effects, although I am unsure of the details (like what happens if it is the MW that defends - and loses).

	27-03-2004 06:45									#4
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You must succeed in an attack to gas the population.

	27-03-2004 06:45									#5
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I sem to recall that nerve gas will have zero impact against mindworms and even if the worm loses there will be no population loss. Also I thought the gas would halve the population of an affected base when a nerve gassing worked but I'm not ceratin what happened with odd numbers-- I am not a big nerve gasser either

	27-03-2004 07:10									#6
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Whoops, looks like my memory is a bit hazy, now that I go back and look at my game. I guess you do have to kill the defender...I think...

	27-03-2004 08:45									#7
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Well, that's for all the info guys. I sure wish I knew about the MW advantage a few years (turns) ago. Now I'll just have to retool in a hurry!

	27-03-2004 09:47									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber I sem to recall that nerve gas will have zero impact against mindworms and even if the worm loses there will be no population loss. Also I thought the gas would halve the population of an affected base when a nerve gassing worked but I'm not ceratin what happened with odd numbers-- I am not a big nerve gasser either

Correct. I also seem to recall hearing that if you use that armor that relies on morale instead of weapon strength (Brain cramp) you likewise don't get pop reduction.

	27-03-2004 19:37									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Correct. I also seem to recall hearing that if you use that armor that relies on morale instead of weapon strength (Brain cramp) you likewise don't get pop reduction.

hmm now that would be really useful when you're fighting with/against the aliens

	28-03-2004 00:43									#10
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Psi armor - Dang it I'm old.

	28-03-2004 23:10									#11
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So, is it agreed that 3r armor will help vs nerve gas or is the jury still out on this one?

	29-03-2004 00:03									#12
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I just tried out both resonance and pulse armor, in a base with a perimeter defense and aerospace complex. Neither made a difference, if they lost they took the massive population loss.

	29-03-2004 00:08									#13
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Oh, ok shawnmmcc, thanks for the info.

So then, do we all at least agree that if you win you don't take population loss?

	29-03-2004 01:04									#14
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Not any of the new armors introduced in SMAX ie. pulse or resonance armors. No I was speaking of psi-armor. And truth be told I don't know for a fact that it prevents use of nerve gas and hence the lack of population reduction. (It was something I heard once tho') Certainly native life does.

	29-03-2004 11:45									#15
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The fact that you had to ask if it caused damaged is a problem. Atrocities are for cowards, unless of course you are playing a very messed up game just for fun (isn't that all games?)

	29-03-2004 12:38									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus hmm now that (the psi armor) would be really useful when you're fighting with/against the aliens

Actually Lazerus, the psi armor can be even more useful when fighting someone with relatively advanced weapons/armor techs. Your psi stuff forces the battle to be decided by morale (which hopefully you are able to jack up if you are attempting this gambit) and an elite scout becomes a force to be reckonned with. Even if you don't ultimately prevail, it is very satisfying to see expensive deluxe units go down before the hoi polloi.

It is possible (but I wouldn't bet the farm on it) that the Xgas doesn't work against normal units with psi armor, as normal and psi abilities may not work in combat conducted in the other domain.

	30-03-2004 09:13									#17
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Hi all,
I've been researching and asking around and here's my latest understanding of how all this works. Any corrections or additions will be more than welcome:

A base successfully attacked by nerve gas will lose population. Some base facilities can act to mitigate this loss. Datalinks says a Research Hospital helps vs. genetic warfare (i.e. probes using some sort of genetic 'plague') but fails to mention that it also helps vs. nerve gas attack. There are a few other 'hospitals-like' facilities that also can reduce the impact of nerve gas.
A base defended by a PSI unit will not lose population. This is because a PSI unit can’t be targeted by nerve gas, it isn’t affected by nerve gas, and it causes the attacker to revert to conventional combat. It’s hard to tell which unit will defend. Even a designated defender will not always defend. Interceptors in a base will usually but not always defend vs. an air attack (they get their attack strength in defense). If a PSI unit successfully defends, another unit may defend a subsequent attack if the PSI unit is damaged.

Impacts of nerve gas attack can differ depending on whether the attacking unit is an air, ground, sea, or probe unit. Successful ground unit nerve gas attacks result in collateral damage. Air unit attacks do not cause collateral damage. Sea unit attacks and probe team attacks should be tested for collateral damage.

Nerve gas is a minor atrocity resulting in economic sanctions and desire for revenge from AI factions. Additionally, each nerve gas attack has a negative impact on the attacker’s 'clean mineral' count and extensive use could result in massive eco-damage and sea levels rising. If U.N. Sanctions are lifted then sanctions and eco-damage are removed.

	30-03-2004 18:51									#18
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Also note, when using the Alien factions, they are also immune to the eco-damage and econ sanctions as they are not part UN.

I've been playing a game where I've exclusively used nerve gas weapons against humans and Marr and have not suffered any eco damage as a result (although nerve stapling your citizens causes the loss of your energy grid for 10 turns/per incident)

	30-03-2004 19:34									#19
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quote: Originally posted by ERKUTHER (although nerve stapling your citizens causes the loss of your energy grid for 10 turns/per incident)

I suppose you're talking about 'sanctions'.

	30-03-2004 21:15									#20
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Hmmm....

I suppose one could armor needlejet with psi armor. How about psi weapons on an interceptor? In doing so, interceptor would scramble & attack using psi weaponry hence again no nerve gas attack.

	30-03-2004 21:56									#21
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Hmmm....empath interceptors, very cool. Maybe someone would care to play test this idea? I'm clueless as to creating scenarios.

	30-03-2004 22:35									#22
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Net Warrior,

Not empath interceptors. Empath is a special ability slot. Psi Weapons is a choice of weaponry not a special ability slot.

Unfortunately it comes in the game a bit late.

Regarding the post about research hospitals reducing effects of nerve gas, I don't recall ever experiencing that. Anyone ever see anything to this effect?