31-08-2004 07:27									#451
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I eventually took care of those stacks though…only to run into more stacks of barbs. Throughout all the barb-hunting I think I only lost maybe 4 or 5 units total. I tried pinging as many with cannons as I could as well as inducing the barbs to attack my fortified-on-hills musketmen with their 1-attack pikes.

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	31-08-2004 07:28									#452
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And yet more, this right near the end. I actually encouraged this stack to chase me close to home. I had 29,995 victory points and five treasure units on the way home. All I needed was to kill even one of those barbs (whether offensively or defensively) to give me the last few points I needed for the win.

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	31-08-2004 07:28									#453
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A quick look at my military a turn before the end of the game (if anyone cares ). Besides what is shown I also had 12 medieval infantry. All my rush-buying was why I maintained the largest military throughout the game. I never built a single fast-moving unit (knight) and only a few cannons. I was originally going to build more cannons, but decided to focus more on the musketmen at the end. With their high (10) defense in my main cities I felt they would have more bang for the buck if I was attacked by anyone.

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	31-08-2004 07:33									#454
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All in all it has been a really fun game and I'm sorry to see it end. Thanks for the fun guys.

	31-08-2004 08:05									#455
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Wow!!! The last time I checked - you were at 19,000 vp's.

Congrats Rhothaerill!!!





Yes- great game. And you were right to be worried. The Spanish-French-Engisih alliance was about to come down on your head big time. But you finessed us all. Well done, sir.

What bugs me is the effort I have put into creating my civ in the new world. And my colonial capitol was to be finished in Texania next turn. With that orange swath and all the treasure producing tiles, if we could have kept you in check - it would have been interesting. And my navy was fairly impressive as well - and other than pirate hunting - I never got a chance to let it loose.

All in all - a great game. One of my favourite pbem's to-date.

	31-08-2004 08:10									#456
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quote: Originally posted by Beta Yes- great game. And you were right to be worried. The Spanish-French-Engisih alliance was about to come down on your head big time. But you finessed us all. Well done, sir.

I knew it was coming, which was why I took the effort of building up my defensive forces so high. In my treasure cities in the New World, each one had 7 muskets and other units by this last turn. Even with a three-on-one pile-up it still would have taken a lot of resources for you guys to take any one of my cities.

All I needed was some time and I got it.

quote: What bugs me is the effort I have put into creating my civ in the new world.

Regarding the big swath of orange, or con's swath of blue and Paddy's of pink...that's the whole point. I didn't waste unnecessary resources building so many cities. I put my resources into getting treasure units as quickly as possible in cities that were only a few turns away from my capital. With some of the far-flung treasure cities it would have taken you guys several more turns then my average of 3 turns to return treasure...and I was returning 4 or 5 treasure units at a time.

	31-08-2004 08:14									#457
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By the way I'd be interested to see how each of you got to where you are in the game too....except for con since no one cares about a has-been pirate.

Well, mainly because he doesn't know what went on with his civ for the first 30+ turns.

	31-08-2004 08:50									#458
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Congrats on your victory Rhoth!

To bad I wasn't even able to create at least ONE treasure before it ended.

	31-08-2004 08:52									#459
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill By the way I'd be interested to see how each of you got to where you are in the game too....

Please. For me it's easy - can you say "butt place"?

	31-08-2004 09:03									#460
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Please. For me it's easy - can you say "butt place"?

Not around you.

	31-08-2004 09:05									#461
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill All I needed was some time and I got it. Regarding the big swath of orange, or con's swath of blue and Paddy's of pink...that's the whole point. I didn't waste unnecessary resources building so many cities. I put my resources into getting treasure units as quickly as possible in cities that were only a few turns away from my capital. With some of the far-flung treasure cities it would have taken you guys several more turns then my average of 3 turns to return treasure...and I was returning 4 or 5 treasure units at a time.

well done old chap

bloody well done

you did a grand job

and yes there was no way to keep up with your treasue production...

and having to have strong fleets to keep the pirates at bay...

ahh you did good

	31-08-2004 15:57									#462
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what a smirk you have

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	31-08-2004 16:42									#463
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Good post, Paddy.

	31-08-2004 21:34									#464
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill Regarding the big swath of orange, or con's swath of blue and Paddy's of pink...that's the whole point. I didn't waste unnecessary resources building so many cities. I put my resources into getting treasure units as quickly as possible in cities that were only a few turns away from my capital. With some of the far-flung treasure cities it would have taken you guys several more turns then my average of 3 turns to return treasure...and I was returning 4 or 5 treasure units at a time.

Yes - this seems to be the key - and the point that the rest of us missed. One does get hung up on the regular style of civ play. So I was building temples and barracks and the like. I also had coralled the most treasure sites I believe. But I was slower to bring them on line. I think I had only returned around 6 treasures, with another 6 en-route.

With my colonial capitol coming on stream next turn in Texania - and with the layout of cities around the Gulf of Texania (ie Mexico) and inland - it would have been a powerhouse new world. But that is not the point - is it.

This was a great gaming experience, but I gotta tell you, it sure tastes like more.

	31-08-2004 23:06									#465
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I was actually starting to go into the same mode, Rhoth, store up a bunch of treasure and deliver them all at the same time.

Sir Osis had the same game plan as Beta and Paddy, I could n't understand why he had built where he did and had virtually no treasure producing cities set up when I took over.

But then he told me it was his first time with this scenario and he was playing it cold.

I was scrambling to get my treasure producers working, and actually was set to deliver 5 or 6 within two turns. I was deliberately holding off as you were so I wouldn't prematurely inflate my score and then have everyone after me

Ah well.

Now we need to do (GrandPassage#2) AOD#6 with all the same people except in different positions

	31-08-2004 23:12									#466
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill After settling the cities I wanted in the New World I realized that no one had headed to Africa yet. Not only does Africa have multiple ivory resources but it also has gold and a few diamonds, most of which are close to Europe for quick treasure transport back to Lisbon. Africa has a lot of potential, but everyone was focused on the New World so it was ripe to settle. I’ll bet if conmcb25 had been in the game from the start then that wouldn’t have been as nice an option for me though.

Currently in AOD#4 at MZO, Im playing as the Dutch and have gone for a completely all Africa strategy. Except for a lone settlement in SA (Argentina so I can get horses.)

I did this specifically because I knew all the big boys would be fighting for position in the New World, which would give me time as the little guy to get my necessary treasure producers down and build up a treasure supply while they were wasting time posturing and trying to protect the new world.

We will see how that pans out

There is a little more to the strategy than that but if I told you guys, I would of course have to kill you all

	31-08-2004 23:14									#467
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BTW, I was wondering how come I had not recieved the save yet

	31-08-2004 23:23									#468
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 I was scrambling to get my treasure producers working, and actually was set to deliver 5 or 6 within two turns. I was deliberately holding off as you were so I wouldn't prematurely inflate my score and then have everyone after me

I was actually considering keeping a bunch of my treasure holders in another city and then hit 10-15 treasures in a row at the end. But I decided that I was far enough ahead that it wouldn't matter if I tried to hide things. If you guys were going to hit me for being at 19,000vp (which I suspected from talking with Beta ) then I wanted to have all my units in the New World available, not sitting useless in Europe.

quote: Now we need to do (GrandPassage#2) AOD#6 with all the same people except in different positions

That might be interesting...though if we can keep up the same general order of turns that would be great. This game was one of my favorites not just because of playing with people I like, but because it moved so quickly (winning helped too. )

	31-08-2004 23:32									#469
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill That might be interesting...though if we can keep up the same general order of turns that would be great. This game was one of my favorites not just because of playing with people I like, but because it moved so quickly (winning helped too. )

I believe we should keep the same turn order, just someone else starts the game. So we would all get different CIV's.

And with us all pretty much knowing what we need to do it may actually make the game more interesting and more competative which of course will lead to more of the real important thing, trash talking

	31-08-2004 23:36									#470
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill That might be interesting...though if we can keep up the same general order of turns that would be great. This game was one of my favorites not just because of playing with people I like, but because it moved so quickly (winning helped too. )

I was actually storing units with Treasure in the New World. I had built enough units in the old to replace the treasure movers. And I gigured the timeing was about right to dump the treasure in Madrid and get the units recycled back to handle the skyrocketing VP situation we had with you.

I was going to put into port in two turns with at least 6 (maybe more) treasure. That was the result of my scrambling to get my treasure producers working.

	31-08-2004 23:37									#471
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 I believe we should keep the same turn order, just someone else starts the game. So we would all get different CIV's. And with us all pretty much knowing what we need to do it may actually make the game more interesting and more competative which of course will lead to more of the real important thing, trash talking

Yeah. It was of course nice to win the game, but I feel a little bad that not everyone knew that the treasure units were the key to the game. If everyone knows how fast treasure units actually can be taken back to the capital if you have a machine pumping them out and getting them back like I did then we might have more wars then just the native extermination wars.

How about it guys? Up for another game as different nations? Same rules of no land war in Europe would apply, but wars everywhere else would apply. And sea battles are okay everywhere.

By the way...watch out for whomever plays Portugal in the new one.

	01-09-2004 00:05									#472
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Sure, I feel like being slapped around again. Count me in.

	01-09-2004 00:41									#473
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Here are the proposals kept in the proper turn order.

The AI's play last (native Civ's.)

Proposal 1:

Spain:Beta
Portugal:Witt
France:con
England:Rhoth
Netherlands:Paddy

Proposal 2:

Spain:Paddy
Portugal:Beta
France:Witt
England:con
Netherlands:Rhoth

Proposal 3:

Spain:witt
Portugal:con
France:Rhoth
England:Paddy
Netherlands:Beta

I prefer 1 and 3 because I think we should give Witt a decent Civ in this one. And I dont particularly want to play prop1 personally because I have played France before. But its been a while so if thats what we go with, Ill do it.

And Im NOT doing one where Im The Netherlands, Im playing that at MZO right now, and I just dont want to do another one.

	01-09-2004 00:44									#474
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I'd prefer 1 or 3 as well.

	01-09-2004 00:46									#475
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill I'd prefer 1 or 3 as well.

Actually as the first winner you should get the Netherlands

But that saddles Witt with the French and Im not sure I want to do that.

	01-09-2004 01:19									#476
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Well, France would be a definate improvement over the Netherlands...

	01-09-2004 02:06									#477
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Not by much though, the thing that sucks about France is they are NOT seafaring, so they get to the New World and back a whole heck of a lot slower.

	01-09-2004 07:15									#478
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I can go with 3 and I'll take the Netherlands.

As to a second game with the same play order.

	01-09-2004 07:24									#479
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Ok we have two 1 or 3

and 0ne 3.

Witt/Paddy do you have a preference?

And dont delay on the vote too much because Im a firm believer indefending democracy, not necessarily practicing it

	01-09-2004 08:26									#480
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I'll go with option 3 also.