30-03-2004 21:25									#1
	The War Room: Objective Spain Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Fellow warriors and officers.

It is with great honor that we are undertaking the war against the hated Spanish. Now these weaklings will tremble in fear, as they will flee from our mighty warriors and their powerful axes.

However, as strong and brutal as we are, we must not forget that these feeble Spaniards are cunning and shrewd. And with such dishonorable ways, they may well win the war if we are not careful.

As such, we need our heads as much as we need our brawls. I hereby open the discussion so that all our generals and officers think of the best strategies to massacre the Spanish!

	30-03-2004 21:43									#2
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I personally advocate we use our berzerkers as much as possible. As I stated elsewhere, they are as powerful on offense as riflemen are on defense, and they are extremely mobile (3 moves a turn on the galley +1 move if they attack). They can rapidly wreck havoc in hapless coastal cities.

For this reason, I suggest our first aim on the Spanish continent should be Madrid.

I know this is risky. A capital with 12 citizens gives a +100% defense bonus instead of a +50% for a non-capital. We can expect to see many more brave warriors entering Valhalla if we attack Madrid than if we attack any other city. However, this has to be done.

Indeed, there are three good reasons as to why Madrid should be conquered first:

1. It is closest to New Asgard. 3 tiles of sea between the two cities. This means a galley starting from New Asgard can disembark berzerkers in Madrid on the same turn. If the route is clear, and with enough troops, we shall conquer Madrid in one turn, and the Spanish will suffer a great defeat, and lose their most productive city.

2. The Lighthouse is there. We do not have magnetism yet, and we won't have anytime soon. As such, the Lighthouse will be very useful, at least during the whole war against Spain (before we milk techs from them). And even after that, it is possible it remains useful during at least another war.

Why is the Lighthouse so important? Well, that firstly because it will increase the mobility of our galleys, and thus of our berzerkers. The berzerks' mobility is maybe their greater asset against the cowardly Spaniards and their guns. One extra tile a turn will make Valencia two turns away of Madrid (instead of three) and Toledo will be only one turn away of valencia, giving us a huge advantage in preparing the raid from the safety of the city.
Besides, the most dangerous weapon in the spanish arsenal is their superior navy. With their weasels' tricks, they can kill even our strongest seamen in a heartbeat. With the lighthouse, we will be able to escape their demonic vessels by sailing as fast as them.

3. We may have an extra luxury (dyes) on the same turn we conquer Madrid (and hopefully, on the same turn we launch the invasion of the Spanish continent). Unless Madrid's harbor is destroyed during the invasion, or unless my calculations regarding culture are wrong, we'll make it possible for our populated and unruly cities to be more productive.

	30-03-2004 22:31									#3
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First step
Move our Berzerkers and Galleys back to our continent.

We can't waste our time now. Our Golden Age will only last 20 turns, and we must be as quick as possible, without wasting even one move to negligence.

Here is the plan to bring back our troops to our home continent. It involves the capture of BigFurryCity.

1030 AD
1. Attack BFC with the stack north of it.
2. Enter BFC (or attack it, if the previous attack wasn't successful alone) with Horror of Sidon
3. Move Tommy Gun north.
4a. Have all Berzerkers in HotHouse embark on the galleys.
4b. Move all eight galleys NW-NW-N
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=14549_1030AD.jpg

1040 AD
1. Move all Berzerkers and catapults from BFC to Raiding Base
2. Move Galleys to S of Fields of Gold
3. Disembark all berzerkers in Fields of Gold
4. Embark Tommy Gun in galleys
5. Move galleys NE with the remaining move point.
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=14549_1040AD.jpg

1050 AD
1. Move galleys to Raiding Base
2a. Embark all berzes and catapults on galleys
2b. Move galleys N of Raiding Base
3. Disembark all berzes and catapults N of the galleys
4. Move all Berzes in Fields of Gold to New Asgard (the pathfinder should do)
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=14549_1050AD.jpg

1060 - 1080 AD
Move Berzes to New Asgard. In 1080 Ad, they should arrive. Let them rest and resplenish their life.
Move catapults in New Asgard as well. They'll come in handy in bombing Spanish ships from our coast, or they'll supplement our troops nicely once we set foot on Spanish lands.
Meanwhile, the galleys should arrive in 1090, if nothing bad happened to them. If everything goes well, we shall have 8 galleys and all our remaining berzerkers ready to rampage Madrid in the year 1100 AD

Last edited by Spiffor on 31-03-2004 at 00:26

	30-03-2004 23:33									#4
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Step 2
Enough troops, enough navy

Unfortunately, we can't take on Madrid with too few troops. We need more berzerks, and more galleys to bring them to the battlefield in the same turn.

If everything is all right, we could rely on 9 galleys in New Asgard by 1100 AD (including the one currently NW of Palace Of Ice And Snow)

Now, we well fight against riflemen who'll have 14 defense (6 + 135% defense bonus: metropolis+fortify+grassland). At the very least, we need 3 Berzerkers per enemy defender. And we can safely say "our victory is sure" if we gather 6 berzes per enemy defender. This is a big army we will need. 18 berzes (our current transport capacity) is not it.

Now, how can we gather enough fresh blood, and enough transportation for them, by year 1100 AD? (in 8 turns, no less)

1. Have New Asgard produce galleys. By 1100 AD, 4 galleys will be built (one in 1030 AD, one in 1050 AD, one in 1070 AD, one in 1090 AD), which will lead 8 of our warriors to glory. Moreover, these galleys will not have to fear being destroyed by the Spanish navy.

2. Change workforce in Bifrost: remove the laborer fishing NW-NW of the city, and have him work the mountain NW-N of it instead. This way, a berzerker from Bifrost will be perfectly ready in Asgard by 1100 AD

3. Change the workforce in Ring of Vikings and Thor's Hammer.
In RoV, remove the laborer working the tile NE-N of the city, and have him work the unworked irrigated plains instead. It doesn't change anything to RoV's productivity.
However, it frees a productive tile for Thor's Hammer. Remove a laborer fishing NE of Thor's Hammer, and have him work the newly available mined grassland instead. Voilą! We'll have a berzerker every 5 turns instead of 6.

4. Use all our money to upgrade archers, from the furthest of New Asgard to the closest.
In 1030 AD, upgrade two archers in Fields of Gold.
In 1040 AD, upgrade the last archer in Fields of Gold.
In 1050 AD, upgrade the two archers in Bifrost
In 1060 AD, upgrade Zork, in Spanish are Greedy.
In 1070 AD, upgrade Rodrick, in Thor's Hammer
This way, we will have 7 extra Berzies available by 1080AD.

5. In our weaker cities, we need to produce police force to make up for the loss of (upgraded) archers going to the front.
We will need 3 "policemen" for Fields of Gold, 1 in Spanish are Greedy (currently being built), and 2 for Bifrost.
Regarding Fields of Gold, Birka can free two of its current garrison, if one citizen is made specialist. I suggest Fields of Gold builds the third "policeman" it needs (one pike will require 2 turns to complete if we switch now).
Regarding Bifrost, I suggest we wait for 1080AD (when the Berz being produced is done) befor moving troops out of the city. Then, we starve the city just a bit in order for 2 pikemen to be produced.
Regarding Spanish are Greedy, I suggest we don't move the upgraded archer out of the city until 1060AD, when the pikeman in production will be done.

If everything goes according to the plan (please point out my mistakes!), we shall have 4 extra galleys, 7 upgraded berzies, and 6 whole new Berzies to complement the BFC expeditionary force by 1100 AD.

The inhabitants of Madrid can already begin trembling in fear

	31-03-2004 00:14									#5
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Thank you Spiffor

This is great detail, and a good plan.

	31-03-2004 00:24									#6
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Besides, two other things:

1. After the attack on BigFurryCity, we should move the catapults to Raiding Base, and have them embark boats at the same time as the other units coming from BFC.

Catapults will barely be useful against Spanish core cities, especially Madrid, but they'll be useful on our coast, at bombarding Spanish ships. I'll edit my "first step" post to that effect.

2. Raiding base should switch immediately to produce a courthouse instead of a marketplace. The courthouse would be ready next turn (no wasted shields), and it will allow us to produce berzerkers or defendive units in there as soon as next turn.
So far, Raiding Base is losing 15 of its 22 shields in corruption, and 13 of its 19 commerce I expect a courthouse to bring much better benefits than a marketplace, and for a shorter construction time.

	31-03-2004 16:30									#7
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I have just noticed something: In this plan, there are no defense forces whatsoever brought to Madrid. Does anybody know what the Spanish will have to counterattack? They seem quite weak shield-wise, so I don't know if they'll have too many cavalries or conquistadores. But one thing is certain: they'll dedicate their entire cavalry at the reconquiesta of Madrid, and many of our troops will die in the counterattack.

	02-04-2004 04:45									#8
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Step 3
Bringing defense force in time

It is possible to use all our vessels to transport Berzrkers, yet bring defensive units in Madrid on the same turn. Indeed, our galleys are to use their 3 moves to get near Madrid (for the Berzies to attack). Yet, as soon as we capture the Lighthouse, they gain one extra move, effective immediately.

The trick is to embark the pikemen on the emptied galleys at sea, and to bring the galleys (now filled with pikemen) in conquered Madrid in the same turn.



1. Move the galleys filled with berzerkers E-E-NE
2. Attack Madrid with the Berzerkers. For those who didn't have the time to fight, disembark them in the city (without moving the galleys)
3. Bring all the defending units (dedicated to the Spanish conquest) from Madrid to the galleys.
4. Move the galleys to Madrid.

Voilą! We have supplemented Madrid with defensive units, who will come in very handy against the Spanish counterattack.

	02-04-2004 06:01									#9
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Summary: the Step by Step Plan for Madrid

1020 AD (before ending the current turn)
1. Move one spearman from Kagoorlie to New Asgard (est. arrival: end of 1070AD)
2. Move Lion from Fields of Gold to New Asgard (est. arrival: end of 1050AD)
3. Move one Berzerk from Thor's Hammer to New Asgard
4. Change production in New Asgard to Galley
5. Change production in Valhalla to Pikeman
6. Change production in Raiding Base to Courthouse
7. Change production in Fields of Gold to Pikeman
8. Change workforce in Bifrost: remove the laborer fishing NW-NW of the city, and have him work the mountain NW-N of it instead
9. Change workforce in Ring of Vikings: remove the laborer working the tile NE-N of the city, and have him work the unworked irrigated plains instead.
10. Change workforce in Thor's Hammer: remove a laborer fishing NE of Thor's Hammer, and have him work the newly available mined grassland instead.

1030 AD
The Attack on BigFurryCity
1. Attack BigFurryCity with the stack north of it
2. Move all remaining units of the North Stack in BigFurryCity.
3. Move Horror of Sidon in BigFurryCity
4. In Hot House, load all 7 Berzerks in galleys
5. Move these galleys NW-NW-N
6. In New Asgard, fortify the galley
7. Move the new pikeman from Valhalla to New Asgard
8. In Fields of Gold, upgrade two Archers
9. In Birka, produce Pikeman
10. In Raiding Base, produce an offensive unit (I suggest a Berzrker or a knight, but it has more to do with countering a potential Spanish invasion than with attacking Madrid)

1040 AD
1. Move all Berzerkers and catapults from BigFurryCity to Raiding Base
2. Move Galleys to S of Fields of Gold
3. Disembark all berzerkers in Fields of Gold, without moving the galleys.
4. Embark Tommy Gun in galleys
5. Move galleys NE with the remaining move point.
6. Fortify new Pikeman in Fields of Gold
7. Upgrade the remaining archer in Fields of Gold
8. Change production in Fields of gold to Berzerkers

1050 AD
1. Move galleys to Raiding Base
2. Embark all berzes and catapults on galleys
3. Move galleys N of Raiding Base
4. Disembark all berzes and catapults N of the galleys
5. Move all Berzes bar 2 in Fields of Gold to New Asgard. The two berzes in Fields of Gold must be perfectly healthy (est arrival: end 1070 AD)
6. Fortify Lion in New Asgard.
7. Fortify new galley in New Asgard.
8. Move new Pikeman from Valhalla to New Asgard.
9. Move new Berzerker from Ring of Vikings to New Asgard.
10. Upgrade the two archers in Bifrost.

1060 AD
1. Move empty galleys to New Asgard (est. arrival, if everything is fine, 1090 AD)
2. Move the berzerkers and catapults near Spanish are Greedy to New Asgard (est arrival, 1080 AD)
3. Move Zork from Spanish are Greedy to New Asgard (est. arrival, end 1070 AD)
4. Fortify new Pikeman in Spanish are Greedy.

1070 AD
1. Fortify new galley in New Asgard.
2. Move new Pikeman from Valhalla to New Asgard
3. Move new Berzerker from Bifrost to New Asgard (est. arrival: end 1080AD)
4. Move the remaining two Berzerkers from Fields of Gold to New Asgard (est. arrival: end 1090 AD)
5. Move two spearmen from Birka to Fields of Gold
6. Upgrade Rodrick in Thor's Hammer
7. Change workforce in Birka: remove the laborer fishing the tile NW of town, and have him work as a taxman.
8. Change production in Thor's Hammer to Pikeman.
9. Change production in Bifrost to Pikeman

1080 AD
1. Move two berzerkers from Bifrost to New Asgard (est arrival: end 1090 AD)
2. Move new Berzerker from Thor was Here to New Asgard (est. arrival: 1100 AD)
3. Move all Berzerkers from Bifrost to New Asgard
4. Change workforce in Bifrost: remove one laborer working a mountain, and have him work as entertainer (the pikeman shouldn't take longer to be produced)
5. Upgrade the spearman in New Asgard to Pikeman
6. Fortify all Berzerkers and catapults from the south Island who should have arrived this turn in New Asgard.

1090 AD
1. Fortify the new galley in New Asgard.
2. Move the new Pikeman from Valhalla to New Asgard
3. Fortify all newcomer galleys in New Asgard.

1100 AD
The Vikings' finest hour
1. Load all berzerkers available on all galleys available
2. Move the galleys E-E-NE
3. ATTACK MADRID FROM THE SEA with our Berzerkers
4. Disembark all the berzerkers who didn't attack in conquered Madrid (do not move the galleys)
5. Move 5 pikemen from New Asgard to the galleys.
6. Move catapults from New Asgard to the galleys
7. Move our galleys to Madrid

Edit: the catapults are now to enter Madrid along with the defending units.

Last edited by Spiffor on 02-04-2004 at 20:07

	02-04-2004 06:07									#10
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To end this strategy session, I want to point out that I am no military expert, nor Civ3 expert. I am generally a builder, and I never play on deity difficulty.

As such, this scenario is a "perfect case" scenario, where we are not attacked by Spain, and where no boats block the perfect way to Madrid come 1100 AD. Also, it considers the Persians remain at peace with us.

Should anything unexpected happen, I expect those members present during the chat to take any action they deem necessary, thus overhauling my plans. We need to keep all our cities, even if it means delaying our attack on Madrid.

	02-04-2004 07:59									#11
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we appreciate your plans..

each step will be taken underconsideration as we work through the Senate Session

I highly advise all those planning on attending to read and understand all that Spiffor has laid out for us

	02-04-2004 08:05									#12
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Thanks

And should we win Madrid with this plan, I'd gladly see it renamed "Spiffor's Wisdom"
Should we lose miserably, I will see no problem in having a city renamed "Spiffor's Shame"

	04-04-2004 00:37									#13
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all that grand planning, and brought undone by 7 losey frigates and some ironclads...

ahh it is all good in the end

	04-04-2004 01:25									#14
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Well are we still at war with spain? If so then we need to plan over.