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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > AC-General/Help/Strategy-Archive > Hull sizes for warships
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pvzh is offline pvzh
Warlord
Canada
Aug 2002
time: 01:35
  Old Post 31-03-2004 03:57
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Hull sizes for warships Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I bought SMAC and SMAC/X as a part of the Lap Top collection. Never played it before. Played severa games on talent as UoP just to be able to see more different tech-stuff. Reading through help files and strategy tips on the net I cannot figure out one thing. What a difference combat-wise between let say missle foil and missle cruser. The only difference I see is that cruser moves somewhat faster. Do they have different number of "hit points"? What the purpose of larger hulls for warships? You cannot pack more stuff in them anyways, right?

Lazerus is offline Lazerus
King
Empires were built by dictators, not democracies.
Jul 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 31-03-2004 03:58
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Inflate your Upload Space

thats the only difference, moves faster.

oh and a cruiser transport can carry alot more then foil transport

Zeiter is offline Zeiter
Prince

Dec 2003
time: 23:35
  Old Post 31-03-2004 04:07
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Increase Your PM Length

Yeah, the extra 2 moves may not seem like much, but being able to disengage from an attacking foil helps out big time! And then if you have the maritime control center and elite units, you've got 9 moves a turn compared to the measly 4 moves a turn from the foils. Sometimes, if it speeds up production, I'll even scrap the armor and AAA tracking and pump out a bunch of unamored 8-1-6 attack cruisers. They can easily disengage from another attacking ship, and if you bring along a few SAM cruisers, you can defend against air attacks.

Also, being able to transport 4 units is so much better than 2. You'd need twice as many foil transports to do the job of cruiser transports. And I guarantee you that producing twice as many transport foils would be much more costly both in terms of support and manufacturing.

Santiago_Claus is offline Santiago_Claus
Warlord

Mar 2004
time: 05:35
  Old Post 31-03-2004 04:08
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Put an end to popups!

You're correct in thinking the "only" difference between the cruiser and foil is speed, but that's a pretty big "only".

The faster of two ships is allowed to withdraw when attacked -- or if attacking prevent the enemy's withdrawal.

Fast probes are more likely, particularly against the omniscient AI, to reach enemy bases before being caught.

Sea formers and supply ships benefit much less from increased speed, so the cheaper foil hulls are a good choice, but once your industry becomes productive enough to build the cruiser variants in 1 turn there's no more reason to build foils. The better reactors also seem to erase the cost difference between cruisers and foils.

The Maritime SP boosts speed to foils & cruisers by 2, which will make your foils as fast as anyone else's cruisers and your cruisers the fastest thing on the water.

pvzh is offline pvzh
Warlord
Canada
Aug 2002
time: 01:35
  Old Post 31-03-2004 06:52
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Tired of ads?

I see... it slipped my mind that 6 move unit can dissengage from 4 move unit.

Does faster attacker dissengage from slower defender if attack going not so well? I have not see it, because I usually attacked with the odds in my favour.

Not to open other threds...
What is the purpose of armour on needle jets. Air combat is resolved only using attack ratings, yet we allowed to pack armour on them.

Googlie is offline Googlie
Emperor
Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:35
  Old Post 31-03-2004 10:43 Visit Googlie's homepage!
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Their armor comes into play when they are stationary within a base being attacked by land units

And, of course, armor on a chopper helps defend it from ground attack when it's between turns

gwillybj is offline gwillybj
Prince
Eurytion Mining Colony: 165°C dayside, 165°F nightside
Mar 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 31-03-2004 11:36
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Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote:
Originally posted by pvzh
Does faster attacker dissengage from slower defender if attack going not so well?

No.

pvzh is offline pvzh
Warlord
Canada
Aug 2002
time: 01:35
  Old Post 31-03-2004 23:05
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Got spare money?

What about artillery and fractional movement points?
Does artillery piece suffer corresponding penalty? For example, if 2/3 movement point left, does <6> translates to <4>?

CEO Aaron is offline CEO Aaron
Prince
Everything has its price. Even you.
Aug 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 00:00
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Enter the AD-FREE zone

I actually tend to keep my warships on Foil Hulls, the idea being to crank out as many clean 4/4 boats with AAA as possible. Sure, they can't disengage, but they're an attrition unit, designed scour the seas, and tie up enemy resources. Besides, if you have the Maritime Control Center and they become elite, they'll have more moves than stock cruisers anyway.

That's the real benefit to the MCC, in my mind, that you can field a foil fleet that can outrun everyone else's cruisers. I forget, but to IOD's get the +2 movement from the MCC?

Zeiter is offline Zeiter
Prince

Dec 2003
time: 23:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 05:05
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yeah, IOD's also get the +2 movement bouns.

Lazerus is offline Lazerus
King
Empires were built by dictators, not democracies.
Jul 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 21:54
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Support Apolyton

quote:
You're correct in thinking the "only" difference between the cruiser and foil is speed, but that's a pretty big "only".


I know, i was just giving him an "only" difference in terms of the actual rules with no comment on how big that only is in terms of strategic gameplay.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 03-04-2004 12:40 Visit Dis's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

some people have been mentioning the laptop collection?

what is that? where do I find it? I want smacX.

Petek is offline Petek

Prince
Berkeley, CA
Jul 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 03-04-2004 18:49
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Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
some people have been mentioning the laptop collection?

what is that? where do I find it? I want smacX.


The Laptop Collection contains five classic games (Tiger Woods PGA Tour Collection, Command and Conquer Red Alert 2, SimCity 3000 Unlimited, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri and Alien Crossfire). You can find it on Amazon.com. I got it at Walmart last year. Cost is about $20.

Commy is offline Commy
King
St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:35
  Old Post 05-04-2004 07:29
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Personally, I think a cruiser can beat the crap out of a row boat.

Barinthus is offline Barinthus
King
A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
time: 21:35
  Old Post 05-04-2004 08:09
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Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I got mine in Fry's Electrontics... that's not much of a help for you Dissident unless you happen to live in the western US.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 06-04-2004 00:05 Visit Dis's homepage!
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Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by DataAeolus
I got mine in Fry's Electrontics... that's not much of a help for you Dissident unless you happen to live in the western US.


see my location field. oh wait, that doesn't show my location. I live in Las Vegas. We do have a Fry's now! I'll look for it.

Darsnan is offline Darsnan
King
New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 06-04-2004 00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
some people have been mentioning the laptop collection?

where do I find it? I want smacX.


Its available at Media Play, as well, if theres one in Vegas. FYI.


D

johndmuller is offline johndmuller
King
Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 06-04-2004 03:46
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Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Pvzh
Not to open other threds...
What is the purpose of armour on needle jets. Air combat is resolved only using attack ratings, yet we allowed to pack armour on them.
quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
Their armor comes into play when they are stationary within a base being attacked by land units
And, of course, armor on a chopper helps defend it from ground attack when it's between turns


For what it's worth, I believe that non-SAM NJ's (and presumably non-SAM Choppers in the open) defend against (SAM) Interceptor NJ's or SAM Choppers (or SAM equipped land units) using whatever armor they might have. While it is generally not worth it to armor aircraft, it would be more cost effective if one had some armor-only NJ's to act as bomber escorts (they could also destroy some underlying terraforming while they were hanging around on guard duty). Unfortunately, defensive tech is usually at least a few levels below offensive tech, so unless you had a large technology and/or morale advantage, this strategy would more than likely result in wounding attacking SAM aircraft than killing them, but it might keep your attack aircraft alive and healthier while the target's interceptors would be more limited in their attacking capability and/or forced to sit out turns getting repaired. Still, it is probably more sensible to attack their inteceptors yourself, rather than try to protect your attack a/c this way.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 12:31 Visit Dis's homepage!
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#19 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by Darsnan


Its available at Media Play, as well, if theres one in Vegas. FYI.


D


What is Media Play? Is it a software retailer? I have never heard of it actually.

I haven't had any luck finding SMACX at Fry's. I found the orignal game, but not the expansion.

Darsnan is offline Darsnan
King
New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 16:05
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#20 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Dissident


What is Media Play? Is it a software retailer? I have never heard of it actually.


Yes. Big in the northeast US. There must be an analog out in Vegas I would think, and be able to order "The Laptop Collection" through the.


D

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 01:21
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#21 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

The cruiser units look look much better than the foil units.

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