31-03-2004 04:19									#1
	Turn 191 - 760AD Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

GoW have Medicine (see chat in log)
Lego have Steam.
We have Electricity next turn.

Didn't go far in the chat other than to test the water about hitting Lego, and they're up for it - possibly prefering nukes, though. A matter for discussion.

We need to send them Steam Power accepted this turn.

	31-03-2004 04:24									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Nukes won't work. Medicine is good news.

	31-03-2004 11:34									#3
	Got spare money?

Sorry guys... the turn will have to be postponed. I thought to wake up early to play it (no time yesterday), but I'm swamped in (personal) work. This evening, without delay.

DeepO

	31-03-2004 12:21									#4
	Got spare money?

Not to worry it is not life and death.

	31-03-2004 12:24									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I just read the dip post from Togas, why do these guys keep makin deals without check in with us? What the heck did they give to get something we could have given them?

Don't they understand that we need to work together? Anything they give Vox, helps Lego. At least it should only be when there is no other choice.

	31-03-2004 14:27									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I more or less agree, vmxa1. However, a while back we agreed that RP wold pursue better contacts with Vox. This is one of the reasons they have democracy... but I agree that if it costs them money, they shouldn't do it.

I was not in the mood to make a lengthy post, however.

Oh, something else: What is the precise deal on steam -medicine? I fastly read through the last GoW log, but was not able to find anything precise. Was there any PM or so with the details? They don't assume they will be getting 3 techs in return, do they?

DeepO

	31-03-2004 15:11									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I don't know what the deal is either, now. Originally it was Steam-for-Medicine, but I don't believe we made any comittment to any other arrangement.

	31-03-2004 22:33									#8
	Got spare money?

If anybody is feeling up to it, could those details Re: GoW be cleared up, please? I don't have the slightest bit of time before I get back home (which will be around 10 pm or so), so I can't ask them. I don't like sending them steam accepted without knowing what we're exactly agreeing to.

DeepO

	31-03-2004 23:02									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

When was the original deal cancelled?

	31-03-2004 23:30									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

I have to go out now, and it's too early to catch MZ. We can always send it in-game accepted and confirm steam-for-med before their turn.

	01-04-2004 01:49									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Starting on the turn.

CH, if you still read this in time, is there any reason why I have to accept Steam? If we just send it unaccepted, they reply with Medicine accepted, and we accept, everything will be fine, right? Or was there any agreement that they get it one turn faster I miss?

DeepO

	01-04-2004 02:02									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

If it works ok like that then fine. Sometimes the ding-dong seems top take longer that it should - which is why teams often send stuff accepted and leave to trust.

	01-04-2004 02:44									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Start

- Cyclone builds worker. Starts worker

- 425g, elec in 1 turn @100%, 766 bpt, -179 gpt.
- 38 workers

Moves
In general, the specific worker moves are not covered anymore, it gets too tedious. Only important stuff is mentioned.

Operation improve WoC:
- 4 are added to WoC. 34 workers left.
- RR on WoC 4, 47, 41, 33. Workerturns: 22 (including the two workers left over from last turn)
this leads to WoC at size 11, producing 31 shields before waste, 21 shields after waste. IW in 14 turns.

- 3 RRs at Tempest 6, 63, 69. 9 workers
- 1 RR at D-ville3. Still starving...

- Galley2 moves 4444. Moves close to Antarctica, will do the missed tiles to the North on the way back.
- our Southern most galley (off the Lego coast) Moves 222
- our Western most galleon moves 6868 to uncover some more fog.
- Northern most galley moves 226. Gow Galleon and Lego's caravel are still at the same spots.
- last Galleon (to the South of Stormia) moves 7777. Goes towards Elipolis, passing by ND's scouts (if any are present). Not a lot to do with this one, all fogged areas are going to be uncovered soon by other boats.

workforce shuffles
- Cyclone set back to ideal pattern (needs this every turn)
- Inchoff give one mountain to WoC, takes coast instead.
- Elipolis gives one mined grass to Inchon, takes coast instead. Stopped growing, needs RR.
- Inchon moves off the 4 tiles WoC needs. Currently only making 2 spt (can use hill from Elipolis once it finishes its aqua), and at -1 fpt (needs either harbor or RR to do anything about this). This is the sacrifice for WoC, not a lot to do about this. When optimizing, we can take one grass from Inchoff and transfer it after RRing and mining to Inchon, but currently it costs us quite a few workerturns to do that, and we have more important places to do first.
- Sufa uses one sea instead of coast (went to corruption), Tornado uses that coast instead of its sea. +2 bpt.

Current Builds

Changed all builds to the factory prebuilds, as layed out in the Smith's thread. This assumes we will go for industrialization after SM. Can be changed back everywhere later on.



Eli : Aqua in 4
Inchon : Aqua in 31
WoC : Iron Works in 14
Inchoff : market in 32
Diss : GLib in 22
Santa Ana : Uni in 25
Blizzard : Uni in 15
Monsoon : Uni in 6 (can't change to Oracle, as 10 shields came from deforesting. Will need to start on bank prebuild after completing Uni.)
Arashi : ToE in 6 via Palace (needs one more RR for eta of 5. RR has to be done next turn)
WW : Uni in 31
Tempest : bank in 1
SS: worker in 1(shows 2)
Hurricane : Hanging gardens in 22
OG : uni in 28
EotS : Hoover Dam in 15 (via Sistine)
BB : uni in 15
Cyclone: worker in 1
Tornado : Uni in 9(bit of a problem, needs one turn delay to be ideal on prebuild.)
Typhoon : Uni in 24
Sufa : Uni in 36(might need market first, as it needs happiness. Depends on how fast Sufa can be RRed)

Other
- with the 4 new citizens of WoC, we make 777 bpt, increase of 11 bpt.

- Lego got Steam. They're at best 12 turns from ToE (we're at best 5 turns)

- Culturally, we're slowing down, while GoW has been gaining (Lego as well, but considering their GA not by much). This means we're still generating most cpt, but others are catching up. It's not so sure who's first, though, will need a bit more data to see it precisely.

- Sending Steam unaccepted to GoW... I'm not sure on this, as I would of course like to have Medicine next turn. But, one turn of RR less for GoW should be fine, I hope, if they would have offered it to us last turn, we could have given steam to them now.

If this goes wrong, I hope you will forgive me...

Next Turn

DeepO