04-04-2004 04:45									#1
	All Hail!! A call to access Open-Source Put an end to popups!

This is call to preserve and enhance the legacy of C3C.
Major Points:

~Have Firaxis move on completely and totally to CIV$.
~Petition for open-source access to C3C, with safeguards against piracy of the Vanilla underneath.
~Organize CIV3 fanatics to tweak and upgrade on a path to preservation and improvement for both MP and Editor Modding.

Remember, all things are possible. Eventually this will most likely happen to all popular aged software. However, here we are calling for now!

As stated elsewhere the ‘cash cow’ has moved on or changed form, yet this will still stimulate renewing sales of the old Vanilla underneath, for in order to access the both enhancements and mods built thereon.

Sincerely,

	04-04-2004 05:16									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think this call is at least two or three year premature. I wish you well though, but even if Civ4 is totally new code, they will not want to have III code out and about just yet. Actually, probably never.

	04-04-2004 05:26									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

A call to "power" perhaps? no chance.

	04-04-2004 08:36									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Why not? Don't they trust they will do go get em, bang up job with CIV4 that will leave any of our efforts in the dust?

Being visionary is sometimes appearing a weakness. However, ideas grow and this game 'has' already taken up a 'life' of its own.

	05-04-2004 07:11									#5
	Tired of ads?

I very much doubt they would release it. It would create additional competition at a time when they want to maximise their marketing efforts on Civ4. Besides which, they wouldn't want their fanbase at Apolyton to become distracted with a super-version of C3C when they want them to buy Civ4.

	05-04-2004 09:12									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Not to mention they are not interested in giving away work that they put a lot of money into over time.

CTP was long after the fact and they have no lic to use civ anyway. Probably much of the stuff is not useful any longer with new hardware and interfaces to the OS and a new OS.

	05-04-2004 10:28									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Well maybe as they get into CIV4 and having a little confidence in their efforts. My idea is to keep a limited use basis where whatever is done, still requires the possession of the Vanillas.

It can sometimes be amazing, they seem somewhat willing to discard C3C already. Fix it up and resell the whole package again one thing, as CIV complete Platinum or something similiar and many of us would contribute our Mods just for a chance at more game tweaks and game editor improvements.

Well, anyway thanks for help keeping the idea alive.

	05-04-2004 10:32									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

...and we definitely what a 'super-version of C3C' no matter and especially if CIV$ falls on its face. Er, oh well just when I have been lately so behaving.

	05-04-2004 11:20									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

AFAIK no one has released Civ 1 code, let alone II or III.

	05-04-2004 11:56									#10
	Remove this text

Yes, that is very true and did they not keep using and building on it until this very last patch. Old inherited code. Mayhap some interest now will swing things, since they are truely starting fresh with new code. I am not looking to trash copyrights, just preserve and enhance with stipulation of buying/owning the Vanillas underneath. How much can that hurt? If at all.

Or gee, maybe someone of merit will just use some these ideas.

	05-04-2004 14:24									#11
	Got spare money?

I doubt it'll happen.

Mainly I look at the release of CTP2 code, and the very particular circumstances that resulted in it's release -
1. Activision no longer develop any games in house
2. Ctp2 was quite a broken game, even in it's patched state. Sales for it fell well below expectations (one of the reasons it didn't continue to get patched, the dev team was disbanded)
3. I think the code wasn't even at Activison, but one of the programmers had it? (could be wrong here). Of course, he had to go through Activision to okay the release and what not, plus he had to remove all comments in the code.
4. It was basically released to a very small but dedicated community who really really wanted it....there was no reason for Activison not to do it (other than being a$$holes )

So....I can't see it happening with Civ3 because
1. Despite this recently released patch (that should soon be rectified) civ3 isn't in the kind of "broken" state that ctp2 was - in fact it's very playable, over and over.
2. With civ4 in the works...well, what's the point of us developing a super civ3? We should be getting that with civ4 (albeit we have to pay for it!)
3. I just can't see the point in it. Plus I don't feel Firaxis have that kind of community relations spirit in them.

Anyhoo, just my thoughts (interesting thread though btw)

	05-04-2004 16:23									#12
	Re: All Hail!! A call to access Open-Source Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Antrine ~Petition for open-source access to C3C, with safeguards against piracy of the Vanilla underneath.

This isn't really possible considering the code-base. If they released the source code to C3C, anybody could rebuild it to not need Civ3 at all.

I personally don't see this happening as it would compete directly with Civ4. Maybe after Civ4 is out...

	05-04-2004 17:06									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: This isn't really possible considering the code-base. If they released the source code to C3C, anybody could rebuild it to not need Civ3 at all.

Take a look at Ctp2 forums and you'll see it's not like that.

First, source code does not included data material, like art, units anuimations etc.

So with just code and without a content you won't be able to play the game.

You'll need a data from original game.



P.S.
As for open-source Civ3?


if we get lucky, maybe in 5 years.

	05-04-2004 18:32									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by player1 First, source code does not included data material, like art, units anuimations etc. So with just code and without a content you won't be able to play the game.

But I can download a nearly full set of fan-created art resources from here, today. If there were missing parts, I'm sure those gaps would be filled in very quickly.

	05-04-2004 19:11									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

civ3 is also a more popular game, so there would be more people willing to find and "fill the gaps", we are all honest people on the CtP2 source code, however.

quote: 2. Ctp2 was quite a broken game, even in it's patched state. Sales for it fell well below expectations (one of the reasons it didn't continue to get patched, the dev team was disbanded)

The reason it didnt continue to get patched was because the programmers were told to pack their bags straight after the only patch was released.

quote: CTP was long after the fact and they have no lic to use civ anyway. Probably much of the stuff is not useful any longer with new hardware and interfaces to the OS and a new OS.

Just because they have no license to civ does not mean they cant release another Call to Power game, in fact thats what they did with CtP2, they lost the rights to use the name Civilization and so took away the name.

As to whether its not useful any longer, im not a programmer but i suspect some of the professionals we have working on the code would not be doing so if they felt it was useless.

	13-04-2004 03:04									#16
	Tired of ads?

Epitaph

Well having fallen, as I believe like many others here from the beginning of this year (2004) to a false sense of hope concerning C3C patching and editor/feature enhancements by Firaxis, I admit duplicity and accept responsibility. However, I am hopeful that the great ideas, thoughts, concepts and yes hopes will find there gainful way into the gaming world. Even if convoluted. Further, I continue developing my own mod and wish all the best.

Sincerely,
Now a Prince

	15-04-2004 01:08									#17
	Tired of ads?

i guess they could open up AI algorithms and the editor code. it's clear that the whole graphics engine won't (ever) get released, but some optimization tweaking by the community _could_ make sence.

i remember seeing the corruption algorithm published somewhere and gramphos finding quite a few optimization possibilities. with his changes, there wouldn't be the 512 city limit!

but no, i don't believe anything will be changed

	15-04-2004 03:32									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

not in a thousand years will that code be released. They didn't even give us events.

though I support it just the same.

	15-04-2004 04:43									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

However, the efforts that Firaxis put into making things ‘available’ in C3C to modders is very thoughtful and appreciated. I am continuing to learn and use all that is there available in the Game Editor.

I note that the ‘behavior’ of Goody Huts ‘is skewed’ with each difficulty setting and getting techs there from only occurs in the first age. Here seems a small leap to add these conditions in like manner in the ‘Difficulty Levels’ tab. Why? Because the huts are simply triggers. One line of code putting ‘barbarians’ afoot, another leaving a luxury, another giving a tech etc. Some dialog access to this would go a long way to assist modders in making better scenarios!!! Especially if the line where barbarians appear could be specified to ‘other’ units of any CIV.

Aligned to this, are the available settings that influence ‘barbarians’, such as the raging deluge. We desperately need access to the ‘how many’ part of advanced barbarians appearing.

P.S. please take my comment, ‘one line of code’ lightly!