10-04-2004 07:01									#61
	Re: Another house rule? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The New Zealand seems to have been a very lucky ship - the best thing that ever happened to the HMAS Australia was colliding with the New Zealand off Scotland. The Australia was still in repairs at the time of Jutland and missed the battle.

And why was this lucky? The Australia was an Indefatigable Class battlecruiser.

quote: Originally posted by Boco Throughout the battle, Captain Green wore the Maori piu-piu and greenstone tiki given to the ship by an old chieftain at Rotorua in 1913

As an aside, it should be noted here that Rotorua is about as far from the sea as it's possible to get in NZ. It's also without doubt the wierdest place I've ever visited (the town is built on top of hot springs, and peoples backyards keep collapsing into bubbling mud pools).

	10-04-2004 13:11									#62
	Re: Another house rule? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Boco Fairline, can you make a RN captain with one of these? Could be a vital wonder!

Where did he put it? It would make a very fetching false beard, maybe.

	10-04-2004 13:15									#63
	Feedback please Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Can you let me know what you think of this HMS Lion graphic before I make too many more in this style? I'm not fishing for praise here - I want some honest criticism so that I can get the units right.

For example, I've gone away from the Nemo style of having the light source behind the graphic such that a shadow is thrown over the near side of the ship. Good idea or bad idea? Too light/dark?

Attachment: hms lion cb.gif
This has been downloaded 132 time(s).

	10-04-2004 16:21									#64
	Increase Your PM Length

Very nice . However, IMO the superstructure and turrets blur into the hull a little too much. I'd recomend making the hull a little darker.

	10-04-2004 18:19									#65
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Do you mean the hull or the deck should be darker Case?

4 versions to choose from:

EDIT: added the darker deck version

Attachment: hms lion cb.gif
This has been downloaded 130 time(s).

Last edited by fairline on 10-04-2004 at 18:32

	10-04-2004 20:40									#66
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IMHO, which has no basis in historical accuracy , you need a distinct contrast between the deck and both the hull and superstructure. For that reason, I'd vote for D or possibly C. Can you afford to use size to distinguish between DD, CL, CA, BC, BB, etc? This must be the first time I've ever nudged you toward high contrast!

Btw, I read in one account that the RN painted their DD's black at Jutland. If that's true, you might have to sacrifice historical accuracy for visibility in the game. My eyes would freak with black on dark blue.

Exile, are you thinking of units representing destroyers as DD flotillas or individual DD's? How 'bout CL's? The AH game used flots for the RN and half flots for the HSF.

Btw2, I think I'll have time to start scanning tonight. Then I'll PM you bits and dribbles.

	10-04-2004 22:22									#67
	Hmmmmmmmmmmm Increase Your PM Length

Gareth, all four images look superb to me. How am I supposed to choose? lol.

But If I have to choose one, I'll go with the third from the left. In any event, the centre piece of this little scenario will be the ships, not the map, so then, however your ships turn out, we will adjust the color of the ocean to best highlight your work.

Boco, thanx for the S&T article. I have a few issues myself. If I can return the favor sometime, lemme know. And yes, the DDs and TBs will be represented by units of 5 ships. The total number of these small ships fielded by both sides was such that there is NO common denominator. The British had 79 DDs, and the Germans had 62 TBs. Groups of 4, 5, or 6--none will work exactly, so I'll just go with 5/group.

	10-04-2004 23:11									#68
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If you're thinking of having night turns, how would you like to handle the gfx?

Now about that S&T offer... Do you have #176's "Mesopotamian Campaign" article?

I also have some of my Grandfather's books on Jutland, but I don't think they shed much more light on the battle. It's fun to read from a pre-WWII perspective. One of the authors is pretty critical, yet in general applauds the RN's radio discipline.

Beware of the Pixel Obsession Syndrome! Fairline is a known carrier of POS!

	10-04-2004 23:17									#69
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Boco IMHO, which has no basis in historical accuracy , you need a distinct contrast between the deck and both the hull and superstructure. For that reason, I'd vote for D or possibly C.

I think you and Case are right here; C or D it is

quote: Can you afford to use size to distinguish between DD, CL, CA, BC, BB, etc?

To a certain degree yes; the longest ships were the CBs Lion, Princess Royal, Queen Mary and Tiger (all 700+ feet), whereas a QE battleship was 650' or so long. The CB's were distinguished by a narrower beam (more cruiser-like lines) than a BB, so I'll incorporate this difference as well.

quote: Btw, I read in one account that the RN painted their DD's black at Jutland. If that's true, you might have to sacrifice historical accuracy for visibility in the game. My eyes would freak with black on dark blue.

Osprey mentions British DD hulls were painted black as well; they were apparently repainted grey after Jutland because the black showed up at night (!). Must have been a pretty shiny black I have already drawn black-hulled ships for Imp. 2 so this won't be a problem in terms of contrast with the sea...

	10-04-2004 23:21									#70
	Re: Hmmmmmmmmmmm Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Exile But If I have to choose one, I'll go with the third from the left. In any event, the centre piece of this little scenario will be the ships, not the map, so then, however your ships turn out, we will adjust the color of the ocean to best highlight your work.

C it is then! Thanks for the feedback - I'll get a few done this weekend.

BTW, I'm looking at making up some sea tiles to go with 'em

	10-04-2004 23:28									#71
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Boco Beware of the Pixel Obsession Syndrome! Fairline is a known carrier of POS!

I just can't help myself. This Lion graphic will no doubt be tweaked a hundred times before the final version.

	11-04-2004 00:19									#72
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Fairline, those ships are bound to rule the seas!

Bladdy good stuff!

	11-04-2004 21:51									#73
	Suffering from ads?

and some more links:

http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/orderof.html

http://www.100megsfree2.com/jjscher...vonscheer-2.htm

http://www.richthofen.com/scheer/

http://www.kaiserliche-marine.de/

http://www.mdproduct.de/uboot061a.htm

	12-04-2004 06:10									#74
	Remove this text

First batch of graphics: British battlecruisers. Again, criticism is welcome (to help feed my POS )

EDIT: Moved a couple of turrets as suggested.

Attachment: brit battlecruisers.gif
This has been downloaded 102 time(s).

Last edited by fairline on 12-04-2004 at 16:02

	12-04-2004 11:27									#75
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by fairline First batch of graphics: British battlecruisers. Again, criticism is welcome (to help feed my POS )

While this may be asking the impossible, I think that you need to do something so that the different classes appear more distinct. My sugestion is to make each ships smoke plume appear different and/or have the turrets rotated at different angles on each ship class.

Oh, and aren't battlecruisers 'BC's rather then 'CB's as you've labled them?

	12-04-2004 15:39									#76
	Tired of ads?

An old sea dog will be able to tell them apart.

And the fact that they look similar will simulate the fact that naval warfare relied on line of sight and simple radios in those days.

Remember that a ship can still be indentified by the cursor.
And a stack will show the top ship, hide the true power of the stack-fleet!

PS
Fairline, I love the boats!

	12-04-2004 16:10									#77
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Case While this may be asking the impossible, I think that you need to do something so that the different classes appear more distinct. My sugestion is to make each ships smoke plume appear different and/or have the turrets rotated at different angles on each ship class.

I've shifted a couple of the turrets as you suggested. The smoke is marginally different between units, but not enough to use as a distinguishing feature

What about squadron flags? This would require a single ship graphic for each squadron, obviously, rather than representing the full set of classes present.

quote: Oh, and aren't battlecruisers 'BC's rather then 'CB's as you've labled them?

I'm probably wrong here, but i thought the US naval designations were BB, CB, CA, CL and DD?

	13-04-2004 06:01									#78
	Re: Feedback please Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by fairline I want some honest criticism so that I can get the units right.

I like it very much Fairline. Here's some notes:

1) Cesar and Dora turret's barrels should be 1 pixel longer
2) Cesar and Dora turret's top should have a gradient instead of a plain black
3) Guns should be more sharpened
4) I'd add a thin medium grey border between the hull and the deck
5) The ship can be a little shorter, otherwise there will be no difference in lenght between a Lion or a New Jersey

	13-04-2004 21:17									#79
	Re: Re: Feedback please Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Justinianum 1) Cesar and Dora turret's barrels should be 1 pixel longer

You may be right - I'll try this, although the after-turrets are pointing away from the viewer so their gun-barrels should be shorter than the front 2 which are viewed side-on.

quote: 2) Cesar and Dora turret's top should have a gradient instead of a plain black

Lion's turret tops were painted black, as were several of the German battlecruisers.

quote: 3) Guns should be more sharpened

Not sure about this - you have to view them in the context of the sea tiles used. Mine are a dark blue so the guns stand out very well.

quote: 4) I'd add a thin medium grey border between the hull and the deck

You're right if you are looking at the first version of the Lion graphic. This has been addresed with a darker deck colour now.

quote: 5) The ship can be a little shorter, otherwise there will be no difference in lenght between a Lion or a New Jersey

The British 'cat' battlecruisers (and SMS Derfflinger and Leutzow, I think) are the longest ships depicted in this scenario. I'm not making these gfx to be used with WW2 units and I have to distinguish between a range of WW1 ship types from DD to battlecruiser, so the length stays.

Thanks for the feedback, Justinianum

	17-04-2004 18:15									#80
	Re: Re: Re: Feedback please Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by fairline You may be right - I'll try this, although the after-turrets are pointing away from the viewer so their gun-barrels should be shorter than the front 2 which are viewed side-on.

I know that is wrong, but I think it will look better

quote: Lion's turret tops were painted black, as were several of the German battlecruisers.

You're right, I forgot it

quote: Not sure about this - you have to view them in the context of the sea tiles used. Mine are a dark blue so the guns stand out very well.

I'm looking forward to see them in action (I will do the danish fisherman)

quote: The British 'cat' battlecruisers (and SMS Derfflinger and Leutzow, I think) are the longest ships depicted in this scenario. I'm not making these gfx to be used with WW2 units and I have to distinguish between a range of WW1 ship types from DD to battlecruiser, so the length stays.

Actually you're right

	07-05-2004 05:58									#81
	Inflate your Upload Space

@Exile,

I've finally scanned the S&T article. PM me your email address, and I'll send all 13mb your way.

	07-05-2004 15:03									#82
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

BTW, has there been any progress with this scenario?

	07-05-2004 21:32									#83
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think I'm the hold-up at the moment. Making steady (but slow!) progress with the graphics. There are a hell of a lot of ships to draw....

	08-05-2004 16:36									#85
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think all here know the wait will be worth it!