09-04-2004 09:16									#1
	Civ IV on DVD-ROM? Put an end to popups!

Civ 4 on DVD-ROM?
Since Civ 4 is such a long ways off, is it not practical for Firaxis to just distribute the game on DVD-ROM, since most computer users will likely have a DVD-ROM drive by then anyway?

Game May Be Huge
The game itself may even be so huge that it may require distribution on DVD-ROM instead of on CD-ROM (unless they decide to put it on multiple CDs ).

Two Versions of Civ 4?
But if DVD-ROM drives aren't in widespread use by the time Civ 4 is released, then perhaps Firaxis should also consider distributing two versions of Civ 4: (1) a CD-ROM lite version of Civ 4 (arcade style); and (2) the full version of Civ 4 on DVD-ROM!!!



Any agreements? Disagreements?

Last edited by Mr. Nice Guy on 11-04-2004 at 05:27

	09-04-2004 10:24									#2
	Civ 4 Arcade? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Two Versions of Civ 4? But if DVD-ROM drives aren't in widespread use by the time Civ IV is released, then perhaps Firaxis should also consider distributing two versions of Civ 4: (1) a CD-ROM lite version of Civ 4 (arcade style); and (2) the full version of Civ 4 on DVD-ROM!!!

Let me just reiterate what I mean by an arcade-style version of Civ 4.

Civ 4 Arcade would have no micromanagement. That's right--zero, zilch, nuthin', notta! It would only have just the basics of Civ 4 right in front of you. It would look and feel identical to the full version just without any micromanagement. There would be no point in adding any realism to Civ 4 Arcade, since the game would just be focused on general fun and playing quick games of Civ 4.

Civ 4 Arcade could and should be included in the DVD-ROM version of Civ 4. It would be a unique way of introducing players to just the basic concepts of this game without the fuss and muss of game complexities and a steep learning curve.

	09-04-2004 11:17									#3
	Suffering from ads?

Ok, I got another great idea for this. . .

Civ 4 Arcade As Pre-Release
Perhaps Civ 4 Arcade could also be an early pre-release of Civ 4. This would help with the development of the full version of Civ 4 because players would be able to play a basic, stripped down version of Civ 4 and decide what they like, what they don't like and come up with ideas as to what kind of micromanagement Civ 4 should include and submit them to Firaxis!

Fix Bugs
This would also help to fix a lot bugs in the game before it's final release.

Civ 4 Arcade Comes With Full Version
When the full version of the game does come out on DVD-ROM, Civ 4 Arcade should be included on the disc right along side of it.

Patience Is A Virtue
It would also be a great way to keep players from fussing about having to wait so long for Civ 4--a way to hold players over until the final release and make some money in the process to help with the development of the full version, so that the final product will surely be "as good as it gets."

How Long Will It Be?
Especially if the wait for Civ 4 is going to be loooooooooong. . .

	11-04-2004 04:17									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I think that it's really only a matter of market. Will people have DVDs by then? I guess. Will some have CDs but not DVD? Perhaps.

So the only way to get an idea about this would be to get some stats showing the percentage of people having DVDs on the kind of systems corresponding to the minimum requirement. And since we don't have that, it's a bit... bogus

	11-04-2004 13:28									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I oppose the idea. Firstly, yes, by American standards you can reasonably expect most people to have DVD drives in two years - and Civ 4 won't come out earlier than mid-2006, though I'd bet ater. But, in a less developed Eastern European country such as mine, for instance, I doubt that many will have DVDs. Here, most people still have regular CD-ROMs, not CD-RWs even - those a rarity. OK, I got a CD-RW and DVD-ROM, but I'm an exception to the general rule.

Next, I would oppose the idea of putting different versions on CD and DVD. That would mean putting those with CDs at a disadvantage, with a worse game. One of the best things about Civ has always been the ability to play on low-end computers. When Civ 3 came out, one could play it on what was low-end for that time. This is what I really like about it - I'm fairly sure that, even if I don't upgrade my current computer, I would still be able to run Civ 4 on it.

	11-04-2004 13:35									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Why should Firaxis waste resources making two versions of the game? Why should Firaxis plan on a logistical nightmare of having to release two versions of the game simultaneously? Why should Firaxis plan on releasing a game on dvd-rom format if the game can fit on a single cd, or perhaps 2? Why would they listen to fans on an issue such as this when they can do their own cost-benefit analysis to compare the price of producing the different media and the impact it would have on their market share?

In short, no.

Personally, I hope they release the game on an ftp server and all you need is a server-produced registration number as proof of purchase.

	14-04-2004 08:03									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: But, in a less developed Eastern European country such as mine, for instance, I doubt that many will have DVDs.

Those people actually buy games?
-

In two years DVD should more or less be standard IMO.
-
I'm gonna go with Skanky on this though. Atari is moving towards downloading games as it is, so it might very well be possible to do so in couple of years.

	14-04-2004 13:45									#8
	Got spare money?

I prefer a box "plutôt" a ftp

	16-04-2004 06:23									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I would like to see the ability to play over 2 screens, either a really big map, or maybe advisors etc open on one screen, & the 'world' on the other.

	16-04-2004 23:10									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm definitely in the No bracket here.

First off, Civ3 only came on one CD. In some ways, I have trouble imagining that they would even need two CDs to pack it into. If it weren't for the fact that MOO3 came on two CDs, I would totally boggle at the idea of Civ4 needing more than one. And MOO3 having needed two isn't exactly the best recommendation/justification for Civ4 needing two.

Second, two CD games are quite acceptible. It is a very rare game that even now needs more than two. And those are usually huge adventure games or packed with way, way too much FMV anyway. And if they are not breaking the two CD limit, DVD just seems to be a waste to me.

Third, I live in the US and the argument that by the time it is released most people will have DVD drives anway seems somewhat lacking to me. Yes, just about every pre-built system you buy now does come with a DVD drive, but I think useful life times are also stretching out a bit too.

The only justification I can see them having even two or three years from now for putting it on DVD instead of one or two CDs would be if somehow the industry standard moved to putting everything on DVD just because. And god forbid that happen in the next two years, because it would probably mean that Microsoft decided to start releasing all their software on DVD as standard. I shudder to think how bloated Windows would be if the programmers thought they had a DVDs worth of space to work in for the installer media.

	18-04-2004 01:11									#11
	Remove this text

I wouldn't be opposed to having the option to purchase a dvd-rom vs 3 install cds and a play cd. My concern would be why the storage need? bloatware? I'd rather them spend more of their budget on AI issues and revolutionizing the game mechanics than crafting disk hogging fmvs. A few are great, Civ3 definately needed more for the various endings, but I don't want two cds that just have that crap on them.

	18-04-2004 01:20									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Firaxis has gone from static pictures of leaders to bobblehead type figures.

I'm sure its been mentioend before, but what if the next step is to use voice actors instead of or in addition to text? That would take up a lot of space. Of course then you would probably get more racism claims or bs like that. Not sure how I would feel about this, would probably listen to it once and then opt for text boxes instead. That would take up a lot more space.

A crazy permutation of that would be that you could make the leader's voice unintelligible until a certain advance, thus you couldn't really tell what's going on (have a couple advisors that suggest what they mean, but could differ or be wrong)

	18-04-2004 14:06									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: I'm sure its been mentioend before, but what if the next step is to use voice actors instead of or in addition to text?

You never played civ2?
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How about a lot of disk space for............wonder movies !!!!!!

	18-04-2004 20:35									#14
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by alva quote: I'm sure its been mentioend before, but what if the next step is to use voice actors instead of or in addition to text? You never played civ2? - How about a lot of disk space for............wonder movies !!!!!!

I don't recall voices in Civ2...

and for wonder movies, I addressed them as the expensive eye candy they are a post above!

wonder movies to ai coding bug extermination

	26-04-2004 10:26									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I seriously doubt that Civ4 would need more than 2 discs. Civ3 with conquests is only 1.5GB...though wonder movies (after ai improvements/bug extermination) would be nice.

But don't think games aren't huge...UT2K4 is available on DVD (special edition or german edition), or 6 CDs! and it ISN'T full of FMVs, but instead levels...and sounds, textures, which all take up lots of space, especially with the detail put into their textures.

	10-05-2004 05:52									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'll vote for DVD release but also give a for FTP release as well.

Those who say that they don't have DVD drives in them, do you expect to be able to play video games that will be released in 2006- onward on that machine? The processor speed and graphics card requirements are just going to keep going up.

	11-05-2004 14:20									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

hi ,

yes , and it would be nice to keep a part of the dvd open to burn on files , mods etc , .... and updates , ....

have a nice day

	12-05-2004 03:44									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

then you have people who only have DVD drives who won't be able to use the CD because it is still open and plain DVD drives have a hard time reading the DVD-RW format

	12-05-2004 14:14									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Games use more and more hardware capacity so that we can expect the next Civ version to have machine requirements that rule out most of the older PCs. And PCs released without DVD drive are very very scarce lately. So that I don't think the DVD equipement issue is a problem.

The problem is: is it needed because of the code volume? I don't believe coding new and deeper concepts are so space eating. But putting music or movies does. So if there is space left, OK for a little more eye or ear candy (although I don't believe some of the musics they chose for Civ3 can be considered ear candy!), but that is only a must if the game in itself is as poor as the actual Civ3 and needs something to try and hide the misery... Wonder movies are costly and not very useful, a little end movie though would be welcome. Music, they can abstain, I'd rather hear my own anyway than spend hours and hours hearing the same one over and over again (though I still remember some nice melodies from Civ2).

Overall, I vote for one CD, and 2 or a DVD only if required by program size.
Music and wonder movies (even if only the old Civ2 ones which have the merit of existing) can then be proposed to download in dedicated directories on your hard drive, for those who wish it. More flexibility, probably less wonder movie because I doubt they'll develop many just to offer to download, but if wonder movies are optionnal so that the game plays one if available for a given wonder, and doesn't (rather than just hang!!!) if there are none, that would give flexibility.

	13-05-2004 09:45									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by grap1705 Games use more and more hardware capacity so that we can expect the next Civ version to have machine requirements that rule out most of the older PCs. And PCs released without DVD drive are very very scarce lately. So that I don't think the DVD equipement issue is a problem. The problem is: is it needed because of the code volume? I don't believe coding new and deeper concepts are so space eating. But putting music or movies does. So if there is space left, OK for a little more eye or ear candy (although I don't believe some of the musics they chose for Civ3 can be considered ear candy!), but that is only a must if the game in itself is as poor as the actual Civ3 and needs something to try and hide the misery... Wonder movies are costly and not very useful, a little end movie though would be welcome. Music, they can abstain, I'd rather hear my own anyway than spend hours and hours hearing the same one over and over again (though I still remember some nice melodies from Civ2). Overall, I vote for one CD, and 2 or a DVD only if required by program size. Music and wonder movies (even if only the old Civ2 ones which have the merit of existing) can then be proposed to download in dedicated directories on your hard drive, for those who wish it. More flexibility, probably less wonder movie because I doubt they'll develop many just to offer to download, but if wonder movies are optionnal so that the game plays one if available for a given wonder, and doesn't (rather than just hang!!!) if there are none, that would give flexibility.

hi ,

well lets take a look at all thats needed for C3C , thats allready going in the direction of what , 1.5 GB , ...

and then they could get serious wonder movies , era movies , etc , .....

have a nice day