10-04-2004 00:36									#1
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I've got a problem with a couple PBEM games I'm playing. I started them using 1.15 and they are epic games with 8 players (2 human). Now I cannot read them using 1.22.

Is there a way I can read these files without using 1.15?

	10-04-2004 01:32									#2
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I haven't installed 1.22 yet, but I thought it was known that you cannot load 1.15 games with 1.22. I think you need to do a dual install.

-Arrian

	10-04-2004 01:36									#3
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A dual install is the only way I know to be able to use both. Assuming you didn't already do it then you're going to have to uninstall Conquests and then reinstall it, patch it to 1.15, create a new folder and copy the contents of the Conquests folder into it, and then patch to 1.22 again. When you want to switch to 1.15 just click on the .exe file in the 1.15 folder and you're fine.

I just did all this yesterday because I ran into the same problem, when...ahem...'someone' patched The Grand Passage PBEM to 1.22 and I had to follow suit.

	10-04-2004 02:16									#4
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I do have a dual install but why do some files work fine going from 1.15->1.22 and others do not?

	10-04-2004 02:20									#5
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As far as I can tell (and supported by alexman's quote) only the unmodded games are not supported by v1.22. All modded games, including the Conquests as they are inherently modded, can transfer to v1.22. In my case, though I haven't checked with any SP games yet, all of my PBEMs that are either Conquests or pre-made maps transferred over to v1.22. The only ones that didn't were the PBEMs that used random start maps.

	10-04-2004 03:12									#6
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That is too bad. I really don't want a dual setup. Has there been any comment by Firaxis about this?

Also do they plan to fix the black screen city view?

	10-04-2004 03:16									#7
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I don't either, but I haven't heard whether or not they are going to change it. I imagine that the need for the dual install won't ever be fixed.

	10-04-2004 11:55									#8
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I feel your pain SirOsis. I too fought long and hard against a duel install...but in the end, I too went over to the 'darkside'. But don't worry, once you make a jump, everything is fine. Yes, it's an added pain, but it's a pain you only have to do once.

	10-04-2004 15:32									#9
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It's a pain but if you want access to those old saves you'll need two installs. If you don't care just finish your 1.15 games before installing 1.22, since nothing is really added anyway.

	10-04-2004 16:06									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill As far as I can tell (and supported by alexman's quote) only the unmodded games are not supported by v1.22.

I guess that would explain why I can still load old saves of my AU502 game played under the AuMod rules, when I expected that installing 1.22 would render all old saves unloadable.

	10-04-2004 22:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by aqualung I guess that would explain why I can still load old saves of my AU502 game played under the AuMod rules, when I expected that installing 1.22 would render all old saves unloadable.

Yep, that's exactly it. Au502 loaded on 1.22 for me as well....which means I still have to finish taking a few Aztec cities and hit the domination limit so I can post my last DAR.

	11-04-2004 12:31									#12
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I've gleaned from a spattering of posts that any 1.15 modded game should load into 1.22. Something was also mentioned about unmodded games without the radio tech yet discovered loading Ok. It seems the tech tree change is the source of the problem. (BTW Strictly Conquests is a modded game, so no problem there...)

I've successfully loaded an unmodded 1.15 PBEM game (DARRTZ) into 1.22, but am unsure if this was because it was pre-radio, originally a PtW game, or because PBEMs carry more information than SP saves.

	12-04-2004 05:51									#13
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OK, I'll post this for the last time. Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

quote: Originally posted by alexman Find the old conquests.biq, conquests.mb, and civilopedia.txt files. Hopefully you still have them somewhere, otherwise you can get them by extracting the 1.15 patch into an empty folder. Backup your 1.22 conquests.biq, conquests.mb, and civilopedia.txt files, and replace them with the 1.15 ones. You should then be able to load 1.15 saves with the 1.22 patch. After you finish your game, restore the 1.22 files.

	12-04-2004 06:08									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill Yep, that's exactly it. Au502 loaded on 1.22 for me as well....which means I still have to finish taking a few Aztec cities and hit the domination limit so I can post my last DAR.

Ah Rhoth, you were hoping you wouldn't be able to load and finish it off huh? Bored?

	12-04-2004 11:49									#15
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quote: Originally posted by aqua_lung Ah Rhoth, you were hoping you wouldn't be able to load and finish it off huh? Bored?

Excruciatingly. It was an exciting game until I finished up my continent. Now it's just producing units and bombarding cities to hit the domination limit. Still haven't had time to finish, but I'm within about 3 or 4 percent.

	12-04-2004 19:23									#16
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quote: Originally posted by alexman OK, I'll post this for the last time. Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

Is this the minimalist version of a dual install?

	12-04-2004 19:27									#17
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Not exactly, because you're using the 1.22 executable, along with its bug fixes (railroad, PBEM).

You are just using a biq file which includes the radio so that old saves are compatible.

	12-04-2004 19:34									#18
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So if you use this with PBEMs, would you have to swap the files every time the turn arrived? I'm still not clear on what exactly determines if a game will upgrade permenantly or not. I have yet to try a game that didn't load into 1.22...

	12-04-2004 19:54									#19
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A game upgrades to 1.22 if it uses modified rules (which are stored in the save file), or if it has no Radio information.

That means that 1.20 stock saves never upgrade to 1.22 because all civs in 1.20 had the Radio from the start.

You can get around the Radio issue by modifying your conquests.biq file to include the radio, or just by using the 1.15 conquests.biq file (which includes the radio), as described above. Saves that have Radio information will then be recognized properly.

Mods have no upgrade issues.

	14-04-2004 14:58									#20
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So alexman, when you say: "a game upgrades to 1.22 if it has no Radio information", does this mean that so long as you haven't researched Radio in a stock v1.15 PBEM, you can continue that game on v1.22?

I'm not clear whether Radio information is introduced into the sav at the start of a game, or during the game when you reach Radio in the tech tree.

	14-04-2004 15:06									#21
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I don't think whether you have researched it is a factor. As far as I can see it's to do with incompatible .biqs.

	14-04-2004 15:23									#22
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But there are many stock v1.15 PBEM's that were continued successfully on v1.22. This to me suggests that it isn't the .biqs but the fact that those games didn't contain radio information.

Which is why I'm asking at what point does radio information get introduced into the game.

	14-04-2004 15:34									#23
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Well I'm not expert in these matters but I believe the lack of radio info in the .biq stops the game from being able to load the old save regardless of the point in the actual game.

As to your example of people that have been able to continue, perhaps they were modded games that do not suffer from the problem? Otherwise I have no idea.

	14-04-2004 18:34									#24
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I'm pretty sure that if no civ has knowledge (or is researching) Radio, backwards compatibility should be fine for stock games as well.

The biqs are definitely not incompatible between versions, otherwise you would not be able to play any of the conquests, which were created before 1.22.

Edit: Andydog, I think the Radio is normally introduced into the save when a civ starts researching it. However, in 1.20 games, all civs started with the Radio, so 1.20 saves cannot be loaded with 1.22, even at 4000 BC..

Last edited by alexman on 14-04-2004 at 18:49

	14-04-2004 18:44									#25
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quote: Originally posted by alexman I'm pretty sure that if no civ has knowledge (or is researching) Radio, backwards compatibility should be fine for stock games as well.

Oops.

Actually I see the distinction you made earlier now. Of course with 1.20 games the civs all have radio from the start, which causes the problem. I hope I've got it this time.

	14-04-2004 23:39									#26
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quote: Originally posted by alexman Edit: Andydog, I think the Radio is normally introduced into the save when a civ starts researching it. However, in 1.20 games, all civs started with the Radio, so 1.20 saves cannot be loaded with 1.22, even at 4000 BC..

Thanks alexman. After reading that I downloaded the 1.22 patch and created a triple install of C3C *sigh*. I then tried loading a v1.15 PBEM where we were still in the ancient era, but unfortunately it didn't work.

I guess Radio must have been in there somewhere after all.

	15-04-2004 07:46									#27
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thanks Alexman

a bit of work, but it would be great to have all games on the one platform

	15-04-2004 07:52									#28
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I've noticed that with 1.22 (and 1.15b too I think), sometimes the "Play Last World" option comes up on the menu screen and sometimes it doesn't.

Anyone else notice this?

	15-04-2004 10:02									#29
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quote: Originally posted by alexman OK, I'll post this for the last time. Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

quote: quote: Originally posted by alexman Find the old conquests.biq, conquests.mb, and civilopedia.txt files. Hopefully you still have them somewhere, otherwise you can get them by extracting the 1.15 patch into an empty folder. Backup your 1.22 conquests.biq, conquests.mb, and civilopedia.txt files, and replace them with the 1.15 ones. You should then be able to load 1.15 saves with the 1.22 patch. After you finish your game, restore the 1.22 files.

Ok, I have set it all up as an extra install- 1.15 to 1.22 conquests (copying my 1.22 folder)

The extra install is so to have it incase my other games want to upgrade etc.

My trial game played well on 1.15 to 1.22 conquests, excellent

Saved it

Then it would not play on 1.22 Conquests...

suggestions

	15-04-2004 18:20									#30
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Your "1.15 to 1.22" install is the 1.22 executable with the conquests.biq, conquests.mb, and civilopedia.txt from 1.15, right?

This install is so that you can play 1.15 saves using the 1.22 executable, but these games will still not be able to be played on pure 1.22. Is that what you want to do? If so, I don't have any suggestions, other than manipulating the saves using a savegame editor or something.