12-04-2004 20:37									#31
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I realize I've not been very active (to say the least) here. However, I have been reading/monitoring/ thinking about our whole situation. Below are a couple thoughts (for what they're worth, which isn't much):

1. I think it makes sense to at least sound out Lego, but only as a credible threat to the Bobians. It seems obvious that, long-term, aiding Lego is foolish and counterproductive. That said, I think we need to make clear to GoW and ND that, if they're not serious about GAUL, we will need to consider "other approaches" to the game. The message needs to be credible, otherwise it will be seen as a bluff or a sign of bad faith. We need to say, in essence, "put up or shut up."

2. If DeepO is right that either GoW or ND has tipped off Lego to our progress in ToE (is there any way they could have figured this out without Bobian help?), we have a serious problem with operational security. However, we may be able to exploit that, depending on who the leak is.

	12-04-2004 21:09									#32
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TS, all views are more then welcome, don't think your thoughts aren't worth anything to the team... there is no team without sharing an discussing opinions.

I agree on your analysis of GAUL, but we face another problem here: if the others don't follow our lead in denying Lego tech, we can't stay behind either. If we're the only ones doing double research, Bob will only grow compared to both us and Lego. Long-term, there is no discussion, of course, we need to hamper Lego as much as possible, but not to the point were we're the only ones being disadvantaged.

I think we need a serious talk with GoW, leading to a precise attack plan. If we for instance agree on "Invasion of Lego in 30 turns from now", they will not share techs with them anymore, as they realize we need to keep Lego from getting tanks. We should set such a precise goal, and a lot of our troubles will vanish.

As to security: It is entirely possible GoW or ND spilled the news to Lego... they have known for a few months now that we're going for ToE, things like that don't stay secret. And, it makes perfect sense that the first in tech would go for it, so it would be no big suprise to Lego either. I don't think there is a spy in GoW, its more that GoW is a lot more chatty to other teams then we are. And in chat, a lot more gets said.

DeepO

	12-04-2004 22:36									#33
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think we're in vehement agreement on this, but here goes.

Regarding tech: I agree completely with what you're saying. It's all the more reason we need to get an agreement worked out ASAP. The key question is ND's role: if possible, we need their participation/ support. It seems to me there are 3 possible responses we could get from ND:

1. full support, to include providing military forces to the invasion and trade cut-off;
2. passive support, which would REQUIRE them to halt all trading with Lego; or
3. opposition, which I would view as any response other than full or partial support.

I seem to recall that we were hoping GoW would convince ND of the need for GAUL. Assuming they've either not approached ND or have not heard back, I think we are fast approaching the point were we need to force a decision. I think this may need to include a statement to ND saying "We (GoW and GS) have agreed that it's time to remove Lego from the game. If you join us, you will have as good a chance to win as either of us do. If not, ...."

Regarding security: You're right, I was probably overreacting here. It wasn't so much a concern about a Lego spy in GoW as it was about ND passing information regarding invasion plans to Lego. If Lego is smart, they have to know this is a possibility (which is another reason why I like the idea of stringing them along by proposing tech deals which never actually happen; it may raise some questions in their minds about how hostile we really are). Worst case is ND nominally joins the war, then passes the invasion plan to Lego to ensure that it fails. That could put them in a fantastic position to dominate Bob and credibly threaten us. (This all may seem a bit paranoid, but that's the way my mind works.) It's sad that I trust GoW more than ND. Never thought that would happen.

	12-04-2004 23:12									#34
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If at all possible, I would keep the support of ND passive... if we could somehow get money out of them without giving them AT and Electro, they're dead meat after Lego has been dealt with. I doubt they'd go for that, though.

DeepO