11-04-2004 03:22									#1
	Battle results Inflate your Upload Space

I visit this forum for a long time now and I am very gracious for the guys helping unexperienced players like me improving their skills. I am just playing on monarch as I do not have much time to play this game. Maybe 3 - 4 hours a week. So one game takes a long time for me. Just recently I played a tight game and I saved a game just before getting to bed. The next evening I started the game again focusing on some battles against my biggest AI-rival. Before the save I brought a stack of forces to the border of a city I wanted to take. The first unit attacking went well and I got a GL from it. Then one of my coonies who likes to sit on my desk when I have my PC running tapped on the spacebar and all my attacking forces skipped this round. I went on, but without success. Should I reload ? I have civ3 since it was released and I never reloaded, but this time I did it and after I reloaded, again I got a MGL with the same unit. Now I got suspicious. I reloaded ten times and I got the GL with this unit every time and furthermore all other units got the same results as before. I thought each battle is calculated at the time it is fought, but it seems to me that it is fixed at the start of each turn. Anybody else made this experience ?

	11-04-2004 04:28									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

That's a result of the pseudo-random number generation used for determining battles in CivIII. You can think of it has having a very long sequence of numbers, and each time it's called to make something "random", it takes the next number in the sequence. If you reload, the "next number in line" remains the same.

If you dislike it, uncheck the box "Preserve Random Seed" when setting up the next game. Then the engine won't remember where it was in the sequence, but initialize at some effectively random point (likely using the system clock).

	11-04-2004 06:20									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Wow, a player who had to wrestle with his conscience about reloading because someone else had ruined his move! Now that's iron man honesty. I approve.

	11-04-2004 08:13									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

mahi withe "preserve random seed" enabled (default) if you make all move exactly the same you will get the same results.

CivIII came with no means to change it, but now you can turn it off or leave it enabled. It was a good idea, but the cheaters no how to get around it anyway, so it only makes them work a bit harder.

	11-04-2004 14:14									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

plotinus : I think this "strategy" of not reloading let me improve as you tend not to make a mistake a second time and I have to use my brains (the little I have) a little more during my turn. Of course sometimes it is a little tough as it spoils a complete game, but the early part of the game is of the most fun for me anyway. The temptation of reloading is big also if you just built your first tanks and your lovely full health tank loses against a cavalry with two hit points left. Then the time has come for another cool beer.

last conformist & vmxa1 : thanks, maybe I should have read the manual ?

	11-04-2004 15:56									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It's a long time since I read the manual, but I'm pretty positive this isn't explained there anyway. There is a mention in the Readme for I cannot recall which patch.

	12-04-2004 10:49									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It was not in the manuals as it did not exist when it came out. It is mentioned in the readme for CivIII 1.29F.

	13-04-2004 04:44									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

[mahi] Oh yes, I think honestly never reloading is a good thing. I must admit that I do reload sometimes myself if things have gone *really* badly, but I try not to do that. But I must admit to a habit of always saving the game before declaring war...

	13-04-2004 13:49									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I reload for genuine typos or clicking mistakes..........there's no need to be shameful about that. The point is just to not give in to the temptation to reload if you screw up strategically.

	15-04-2004 13:38									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I generally avoid reloading for SP-games, except for the more destructive clicking mistakes etc.

Sometimes I do the 'time-machine' trick. Going back to the start of a campaign etc to do a what-if game. This can be really helpful when you are trying to learn the game.

Reloading in PBEMs OTOH are a BIG no-no.

	15-04-2004 14:59									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah I am a compulsive replayer also.

	15-04-2004 16:16									#12
	Put an end to popups!

Reloading can help the learning process in SP games. You try a strategy that maybe does not pan out or you just think "what if I had done something different". Nothing wrong with reloading and trying something different.

	15-04-2004 17:27									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Of course it would be interesting to know what had happened if I did it another way and I would not be ashamed to reload for a start with a different ambition to win, but I do not have that much time to play and I personally do not like to start a game a second time. I would be some kind of bored as I know the terrain and rivals.
In most cases I need several weeks or even months to finish a game. One game I finished as the Sumerians (domination win) took more than 30 hours and if you take into account that I do manage to play only a few hours per week, sometimes not even that much, it takes long for me. After a certain while I just want to finish a game soonest possible as I like to start another one with another civ. Upto now I did not manage to play all civs, so there is still much fun out there.
When I went to school, having much spare time, I also played civ 1 and civ 2 trying to accomplish victory with the same starting position trying different ways. Now I am just too impatient to play a game a second time from the same starting position as I do not know all civs with their specialties, yet. Maybe I will do it when I know them all in 10 years... .
Now back to work...

	16-04-2004 21:41									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I never reload, not even for genuine mistakes. I once fought down my best ally as a result of a misclick ...

	21-04-2004 16:14									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The very first thing he should've done is find the fool that messed with his system and break his fingers.

It is SOOOO uncool to mess with someone else's system that there simply is no excuse for it.

	22-04-2004 07:23									#16
	Support Apolyton

Many civ players avoid playing on the same map again. I, myself, used to do that in the beginning of my civIII history (especially when I played on warlord level), learning a different technique etc. Once there was a poll on other CivIII forum, I'm under assumption, player who like playing the same map (we know, a single different move, would give us different result), most likely is a chess player (who always start on the same map ), and they were the minority player. I like chess game

	22-04-2004 09:02									#17
	Remove this text

I have yet to restart a game to try it differently (though I do keep all my 4000 BC saves, just in case), but I do like to experiment with different approaches within a single turn, or few turn range. Like anything else, used properly it can and will help you develop. Abused and it will stunt your Civ growth, and in the worst cae scenario, turn you into the next Fanes7.