12-04-2004 17:47									#1
	Mausoleum: Would it be too much to MOD this to 150 shields Full PM-box? Change here!

Mausoleum: Reducing cost from 200 to 150 shields?


Reasons:
It's a weak wonder.
There are better wonders for 200 shields.

Any thoughts?



P.S.
I could put Oracle at 200 shields too, since it's much weaker then Hanging Gardens.

	12-04-2004 21:11									#2
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They are fine at current cost, IMO.
Compared to a (non-religious) cathedral, it's only 40 shields costlier. I think it's the fair price for tourist attraction and possibly golden age trigger.

	12-04-2004 23:00									#3
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Good point.

But still, when I look at Colossus or Statue of Zeus...

	13-04-2004 00:03									#4
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quote: Originally posted by player1 But still, when I look at Colossus or Statue of Zeus...

So change their prices.

	13-04-2004 03:07									#5
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It's your mod, you can do what you want ...

As far as I can tell though, Mausoleum is properly priced at 200. True it's affects aren't as wide spread as the Oracle, but on the other hand the Oracle expires with Theology while Mausoleum never does.

On higher difficulty levels, I note that Mausoleum will greatly reduce happiness problems in the city in which it's built. (Equal to Hanging Gardens in that regard.) But it doesn't help other cities. This is offset though by it's lower price which gives humans a much better chance of building.

Statue of Zeus real cost is needing Ivory. So far, in three games in Conquests, I've only had Ivory once.

Colsus requires a coastal city that's semi-productive.

	13-04-2004 03:27									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe So change their prices.

Well, I already nerfed Ancient Cavalry (attack of 2) and true, Collossus needs coastal city.


Maybe, just maybe I'll try to keep it at 200 shields, but change it to 4 happy faces. That way, at least, it won't be an overpriced Cathedral.

	13-04-2004 05:17									#7
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It does come a little before Cathedrals though.

	13-04-2004 09:00									#8
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quote: Originally posted by player1 Mausoleum: Reducing cost from 200 to 150 shields? Reasons: It's a weak wonder. There are better wonders for 200 shields.

So you're finally starting to agree with me on our discussion we had from a long time ago?

	13-04-2004 12:55									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe It does come a little before Cathedrals though.

Sure, but then it's a half-a-garden, for not a half cost.


I think that maybe changing it to 4 happy faces would make it a little bit different that Hanging Gardens without changing its purpose (and that's super-city).

	13-04-2004 13:00									#10
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins So you're finally starting to agree with me on our discussion we had from a long time ago?

	14-04-2004 03:50									#11
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The Mausoleum is almost never worth 200 crucial early shields. You can use it to bump a powerful capital higher than it otherwise would be, and in OCC sometimes, but it is undeniably a weak wonder.

	14-04-2004 23:59									#12
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Depends upon the level your playing at.

I'd agree with you on Monarchy and below [unless your a Scientific civ and building it for half the GA or as a fall back to another wonder you intended to build but lost out due to the AI getting lucky and getting a Sci GL.]

But on the Emperor level and above, 200 shield wonders are by far the best options because you have little chance of actually completing the more expensive wonders [unless you get lucky and get a SGL] that early under standard rules.

I'd normally rate Statue of Zeus #1 when you can build it at all, but it seems to me that the probability of having Ivory adviable early on is somewhere between 25% and 33% in Conquests.

I'd also rate Colosus higher, but when the capital is not a coastal city, these two wonders aren't in conflict.

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike The Mausoleum is almost never worth 200 crucial early shields. You can use it to bump a powerful capital higher than it otherwise would be, and in OCC sometimes, but it is undeniably a weak wonder.

	15-04-2004 00:07									#13
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Well even if you can get them (and above emperor that's not a given) that's doesn't mean you should. 200 shields in the early game for a glorified cathedral? You'd better have a damn good reason for spending crucial early shields that way.