13-04-2004 07:05									#1
	surrendering factions Suffering from ads?

Okay it's been a while since I've had one surrender, so I'm fuzzy on this. Usually they refuse.

But finally I had a faction surrender to my believers. The Spartans. I made them swear a pact to serve me. But they attacked me! I thought if they surrender they won't break the pact? What's the deal here? And I was nice and gave them all my technology . The interesting thing about the Spartans is I never took any of their bases!. They were pretty weak compared to me, but they still did have several bases. I was running Power at the time, so maybe that did it.

I also got the U.N. peacekeepers to surrender, but they only have a few bases. I gave them all my tech as well. But so far they are cool.

I'm really mad. Should I accept surrenders in the future?

	13-04-2004 07:16									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yes,

Typcially if you gift them tech and give them bases as you capture them all is honky dory.

The reason you give them bases by the by is so that youcan get rid of crappy efficiency hampered bases and provide a trading partner with one of your better bases. Net result, you keep faction X happy, you get more energy from trade, and you still have a base to work from even if it isn't your own.

	13-04-2004 08:19									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I've had only one surrendered faction turn around and attack me. They complained about atrocities that I supposedly committed against them. I think some other faction must have framed me. Submissives will definitely turn against you if you commit a major atrocity.

I'll give submissives techs, but only minor ones. Good techs tend to get traded around. I prefer instead to transfer high-tech units to a submissive. They will build more of those units, but the underlying techs don't get shared with other factions.

About the only time that I won't accept a surrender is when they fight to the last base. By that point I'm too annoyed to transfer all those bases back to them.

	13-04-2004 08:26									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yea if they hold off til the very last base, they are getting wiped for sure.

I dont think I've ever had a surrended faction turn on me.

	13-04-2004 09:02									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't know why they turned on me. I've been pretty relentless towards the Gaians. But I haven't used atrocities. I have just been refusing a blood truce. I'm trying to get the gaians to surrender, but they won't.

edit: I ended up making them capitulate again after I got them down to 4 bases. I'm not sure if they would have broken it again, the game ended quickly after that.

But I have never had one break a surrender pact. That was interesting.

Last edited by Dis on 13-04-2004 at 11:23

	13-04-2004 21:11									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I love submissive pacts. I enslave every faction that will offer it up.
My experience is that the more agressive the faction the more often they will break pact with you. This is further increased by your integrity rating. The more promises you've broken, the more likely a sub pact mate will turn on you. And of course atrocities play in too. Warning signs are when they stop co-operating with you. Refusing to give you tech or cash, or to go to war with your enemy means the pact could be coming to an end soon.

	13-04-2004 23:11									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I rarely break promises. I goad them into war by claiming they leave my territory. They are usually already pissed at me by this point, and they declare a vendetta to me.

I still think that I left them too powerful, they got overconfident . The peacekeepers never broke the pack. Also it says Santiago is erratic, so maybe that's it.

	14-04-2004 00:18									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

If you have two conquered pact-mates and they are at war with each other and you have units in one of the cities that are being attacked, the attacking pact-mate will declare war on you in order to capture the city.

	14-04-2004 00:49									#9
	Tired of ads?

I did have the situation when I forced the Peacekeepers to surrender. But they asked for help against the Spartans. and I asked the spartans to call off the attack of my friend. That worked, but perhaps they were not happy with me asking them to halt their attacks on the peackeepers.

	14-04-2004 00:58									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I was going to post that the more pact mates you have the more often they'll spilt. But what SynthetGod8 said explains that and explains why the more aggressive the pact mate the more likely they'll spilt.

	14-04-2004 01:22									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Surrender? Why let the AI surrender to you? I don't ever attack them, I just probe rape them till they declare war, and then I probe rape them double time. Allowing someone to surrender to you means that you are a nice person. The problem is, the only people I every do anything to are the Believers, Hive, and Aliens, and quite frankly, they deserve to be shot, so I don't let them surrender, because they would never let me surrender to them, and they always commit atrocities. Now if Lal or Morgan surrendered, I'd accept, but I never go to war with them, so it's irrelevant.

	14-04-2004 01:55									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I never look for a war. War finds me.

Simply running differing SE choices will cause the AI to declare war. Plus I hate giving free techs or cash just because it was demanded of me.

	14-04-2004 09:29									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Surrendering factions means that you can immediately stop attacking them and move your forces to another front or to get ready for a new war. I just played a fast Conquer game as the Hive on a normal sized map (using some of the new Hive strats I've read on this forum) and forced both the University and the Consciousness to swear pact. The sooner an enemy surrenders the sooner I can start on the next faction (thankfully, I only fought one at a time, much easier) instead of wasting 5 turns capturing every point of major resistance and buying defenders. That money can go for upgrades. And conquering two tech-heavy factions and giving them some of their better bases back means that they'll give me any new techs they get. Their industry is nothing compared to mine, so I'm sure to get any SP tech they find. I was on Blind Research too, for fun. Just as long as they aren't building water bases on your coast. but you can just ask for the base and they'll always hand it over, to hassle and you can obliterate or disband it ASAP.

	14-04-2004 12:29									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I thought I readed somewhere that in SMACX pactmates won't turn against their conquerors (except when you commit atrocities off course). Even Probe actions should stop then.

	14-04-2004 22:48									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I usually wipe out my enemies to the last drone Lift a finger against me and I'll make sure there are rivers of blood... theirs.

I'm starting to play around with just be content with surrendered factions and see how that work out.

How does one get a submissive pactmate? Sometimes in a war when I'm overwhelming them, they'd offer to give me all their energy and techs, everything including the kitchen sink, I'm pretty sure that this is a clear case of submissive pacthood.

But when a faction leader offers to give me few techs or whatever to stop war, they don't become submissive, right? What are criteria here?

	15-04-2004 00:36									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Barinthus . How does one get a submissive pactmate? Sometimes in a war when I'm overwhelming them, they'd offer to give me all their energy and techs, everything including the kitchen sink, I'm pretty sure that this is a clear case of submissive pacthood.

That is the way to get a submissive pactmate.

	15-04-2004 00:48									#17
	Support Apolyton

IIRC its pretty clear. They will say something like "My defeat is abject and total, please have mercy, yadda yadda"

	15-04-2004 02:28									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Barinthus I usually wipe out my enemies to the last drone Lift a finger against me and I'll make sure there are rivers of blood... theirs.

The dead can not pay their restitutions. Enslave them and have them repay their debt by fighting your wars while you profit from the arms sales.

	15-04-2004 02:51									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by livid imp The dead can not pay their restitutions. Enslave them and have them repay their debt by fighting your wars while you profit from the arms sales.

When you put it that way, I can't argue. Vichy France just came to mind.

	15-04-2004 06:21									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I've had submissive's turn on me...but that's usually when I commit a "major" atrocity, or if I've messed with them too much.

I'll usually keep the University around for their technological goodies and I'll keep Morgan Industries as my personal piggy-bank. Just threaten him and he'll give you a smackload of credits. As for the others, I tend to squash. The Spartans won't do much if you tell them to invade your enemy, neither will the PK's. Gaians only send token forces, but won't do any REAL damage. Believers usually turn on me.

	15-04-2004 06:33									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Believers usually turn on me.

Probably because you're a nihilistic, atheistic, police-state kinda guy Frankychan.

	15-04-2004 06:45									#22
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Trithemius Probably because you're a nihilistic, atheistic, police-state kinda guy Frankychan.

ROFL!!!

New sig material!

	15-04-2004 07:10									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Frankychan ROFL!!! New sig material!

First time is free... hey wait! This is the second time!
Pay up, comrade!

	15-04-2004 08:56									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Never! This is communal ownership!

Mwa-ha-ha-haaaaaa.

	15-04-2004 11:03									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Never! This is communal ownership! Mwa-ha-ha-haaaaaa.

Bloody Socialists!