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Cosmic
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Was wondering how you guys deal with the SP Manifold Harmonics. Late in the game, with at least +3 PLANET rating you get 3Nutrients/4Minerals/5Energy per square. These are nice numbers, but what do you do about the +4mineral per square? In my games all that mineral causes too much pollution and the planet start attacking me and sea levels start to increase, even with all those Tree Farms, Hybrid Forests, Temple of Planet
Isnt that funny that a SP to create HARMONY in fact create HAVOC?
Any advice? Am I missing something?
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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Use specialists-- reducing your mineral output
scrap and rebuild some of the cheaper ecodamage facilities to increase your clean mineral limit
and for the pops and worms, build artillery and a few empath rovers
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by RX2000
What exactly are the "ecodamage" facilities? Genjack, Quantum Converter, and Nano Factory I would presume? |
No I meant the opposite-- the facilities that reduce ecodamage by increasing the number of "clean minerals" -- that is the niumber of minerals a base can produce before triggering any ecodamage. The ecodamage facilities include treefarms, hybrid forests, centauri preserves and temples of planet. Each of these you BUILD after the first fungal pop will increase your ecodamage limit by one for EVERY base, aside from the effects they have in a particular base.
I forget the beginning mineral limit but I think its something like 16. If you allow 2 fungal pops, ( each pop increases the limits by one as well) and then have 20 bases each with a treefarm and hybrid forest, your limit will be 58 clean minerals per base. Add a centauri preserve and then you are up to 78 clean minerals
I know some players will build and scrap centauri preserves to add to their clean mineral limit-- Remember -- the effect is cumulative for ALL such facilities you ever built AFTER your first fungal pop-- The facilities need not continue to exist. Using the build and scrap method you can get to ridiculously high mineral production without ANY ecodamage from this source
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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:35
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I see your point, Cosmic, and it is very unfortunate. Defeats the whole purpose of the Manifold Harmonics, almost. As for me, with a free market, that idea is screwed. I use Hybrid Forests. But, to answer your question, whoever started this thread, it really doesn't matter with ecodamage, because you use fungus, so fungus pops are almost good, you can capture the mindworms, and use them as military or disband them for minerals, and your planet rating should be high enough to give you a psi combat advantage. If you build Neural Amplifier and Dream Twister, your psi combat should be a breeze.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmic
I was playing that game only to test what Flubber said about scrap and rebuild Centauri Preserves to minimize pollution.
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Of course it works-- and it feeds itself since if you have 20 bases with insane mineral production, its easy to rush 20 more facilities ( with the cash from scrapping perhaps even being more than any needed to rush the facilities) and then 20 more and 20 more.
You CAN get bases with hundered of minerals and no ecodamage. A separate question is why you would want to since IMHO ENERGY is the key to the later game. I've never seen the point of creating a 400 mineral base except to show you can do it
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Cosmic
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I agree, in later turns theres no reason to produce too many minerals. But if I have to produce 4 mineral in order to gain 5 energy, the tradeoff is ok with me!
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Santiago_Claus
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I like to prepare in advance for the switch to a fungus economy. I also scrap all Genejack Factories the turn before the MH is built.
Try to raise mineral production more-or-less evenly. That means plant fungus at bases that lack it, and delay adding fungus to bases that already have plenty, even if it means leaving a flat arid square fallow for a few turns. Make sure overlapping bases share territory equally.
Plant fungus on boreholes then use a military unit to destroy the borehole. Replace mines with fungus; that won't change net mineral output (and frees up a crawler). In general reassign mineral supply units for bases with damage exceeding around 15%.
At low altitudes your instinct will be to plant all fungus. Try a condenser / enricher on rolling river tiles instead, for a return of 6-1-2. Fungus IMO is a little weak in the food department. (Incidentally, I use worker-talents instead of crawlers post hab dome for Golden Ages, which too many specialists make impossible.)
Keep building Tree Farms + Hybrid Forests; superior to Preserves & Temples, they not only give you clean minerals but cash and psych as well.
Slowly ramp up production at all bases so as to maintain around 8% damage, just enough to trigger "mini-pops" that will increase the mineral cap without doing too much real damage. Scatter your formers and plant fungus evenly amongst bases to maintain this balance.
These tactics should keep damage to a minimum whilst allowing you to ramp up clean mineral production to accomodate MH's massive 4 minerals per square.
However ... you must also be prepared to defend yourself.
Depending on terrain every base should be within the move radius of certain key defenses: a res-empath-SAM ship, SAM artillery, a res-empath hovertank, and a res-empath-SAM jet. The ship is most important, as it has both artillery and direct attack. Artillery does mass damage to native life and wipes out anything stacked with a spore launcher, but if you're unlucky enough to get a stack of nothing but locusts your artillery had better be SAM. The jet, while useful against IoD's, is mainly to provide air cover to your ship -- or your base if it comes down to that.
If you do get excessive global warming ("excessive" being whatever would swamp the Manifold Nexus) you can cut the minimum delay between U.N. meetings, which allows more solar shading.
I do this anyway, just because the idea that the U.N. can only meet once every 20 years (10 if you're Kofi Annan) is ridiculous. Even Earth's gold-brick U.N. meets more than once every 10 years, if only because ambassadors couldn't survive that long without 5-star hotel room service.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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santaigo clause
A couple of things
1. why do you want more food or would want to work a 6-1-2 square?? In this late game era, I find food to be more than amply provided by satellites and by adding a few soil enrichers to any crawled condensor/farm combos. Shouldn't you be stressing energy at this time
2. For the same reason I don't understand the idea to scrap boreholes. Don't they remain as the best energy source in the game ( other than high altitude solars with echelon moirrors)
3. The idea to build temples or preserves is simply because they are cheaper than treefarms or hybrid forests PLUS you want to keep the effects of the TFs and HFs when doing a build and scrap strategy. Obviously any well developed base wants to have and keep the TFs and HFs.
4. I like your anti-worm forces-- of course if you have built a decent transportation system, you don't need huge numbers to have an effective anti-worm force
5. I still like using specialists and satellites to avoid the whole mess.
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Santiago_Claus
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@SB: ROFL!
@Flubber:
1. You've nailed me there. I don't build enough food sats.
2. Fungus with MH is better than Boreholes, even given plenty of food sats. Ignoring minerals, 3-5 seems to me better than 0-7.
3. I don't SCRAP tree farms and hybrid forests, I just build them before building preserves, even at bases w/o access to forests. Clean-mineral-increasing facilities that pay me money are superior to clean-mineral-increasing facilities that cost me money.
4. Mag tubes extend "movement radius" quite effectively -- on a single continent. Just don't get complacent about islands and sea bases.
5. If you've built the Vats, every scrap of food means more people and thus eventually more specialists, and workers + crawlers will always bring in more food than specialists + crawlers, but I can't be one to talk since I've already admitted to not building enough hydro sats.
At bases without a lot of commerce income Transcendi are almost always a better deal than workers for energy and research, and minerals we've already decided are in over-abundance, so it really comes down to the food and Golden Ages that workers can generate. I believe they're worth it, and will work every square, trusting the Vats to eventually pack in enough Transcendi from all that food to make up the difference.
Larger population also results in a higher score. Did I mention I don't build enough hydro sats? * whistles *
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Cosmic
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I like to build a lot of Hydro Sats and Energy Transmiters, but I never liked to build mineral sats (forget the name). But with all that scrap and rebuild of Centauri Preserves (Ohh I`m really enjoying the results of that) IŽll try build some of then in my next game. IŽll also try to build some Nanoreplicators and Genejack Factories only to see how far mineral production may reach in fungus economies
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Santiago_Claus
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Hydro sats push the energy sat limits out indirectly: by doubling the potential size of the base, and with the Vats realizing that potential very quickly, they in turn double the number of energy sats that the base can utilize.
Next time I play ACX I'll build a ton of 'em ...
What's that maximum base size again? Was it 127 or 255?
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Cosmic
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I like the combo Hydro Sat + Cloning Vats, my favourite one! It helps very much to develop new bases too.
If IŽm not wrong, the base limit is 255 (but you have to apply the last patch, otherwise it is 127 or something around that)
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13-04-2004 21:16
Funny but its true!
Attachment: 
). Then in a few turns I have everything covered with fungus and lots and lots and lots and lots of energy flowing everywhere 
Definitely, nowadays, Green Economy is my prefered choice over Free Market. Better, FAR better.
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