19-04-2004 12:40									#32
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quote: Havak might even have nodded approvingly at their rolling mauls.

Sadly the only game I caught was a late night re-showing of Sharks-Chiefs and the quality of those was hardly enough to keep one awake. Plus as Gregor seemed to be holding his own it speaks volumes about the quality of those two sides?!

There was a bizarre moment featuring chiefs huge islander wing. At a restart he runs like a rhino into the opposing Scrum half – absolutely no attempt to use the arms – and neither commentator nor match officials said or did a thing. The lad played no further part. It was one of the worst pieces of deliberate foul play I’ve seen in the S12 I have caught this season – is it typical that such things are let go?

quote: Either that or you've received a nasty bermp on le head.

It feels like it – I stayed up late to see England beat Windies yet again last night.

quote: You are, of course, quite welcome at Eden Park anytime. I'm making up my "NZ 3, England 0" placard as we speak.

I think we have lost the last two series to you anyway – we are kind of used to it (again).

So before he took the AB helm was Henry back at Blues? The fruits of his input seem to be there for all to see?

Tigers 38 – Saracens 10 on Friday night

Up to sixth - and getting vertigo.

	19-04-2004 18:04									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Havak There was a bizarre moment featuring chiefs huge islander wing. At a restart he runs like a rhino into the opposing Scrum half – absolutely no attempt to use the arms – and neither commentator nor match officials said or did a thing. The lad played no further part. It was one of the worst pieces of deliberate foul play I’ve seen in the S12 I have caught this season – is it typical that such things are let go?

I didn't see the match. In general, there's not a lot of it. Butch James aside. If it happens, it's pounced on. Except in Butch's case.

quote: It feels like it – I stayed up late to see England beat Windies yet again last night.

Make hay, as the saying goes. [** SEE BELOW]

quote: So before he took the AB helm was Henry back at Blues? The fruits of his input seem to be there for all to see?

He was an onlooker at the Blues debacle. The TV cameras kept wandering back to him. Not a happy chappie. I'm rather looking forward to seeing what sort of squad he puts together. None of the Kiwi teams are offering him a lot. The Crusaders were doing it comfortably against the Cats - who doesn't? - but must have fallen in a huge hole in the second half.

quote: Tigers 38 – Saracens 10 on Friday night Up to sixth - and getting vertigo.

[**SEE ABOVE] Saracens - the Windies of the rugby world!

	19-04-2004 18:24									#34
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Yep. The Blues.

	19-04-2004 19:16									#35
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quote: In general, there's not a lot of it. Butch James aside. If it happens, it's pounced on. Except in Butch's case.

And of course he was involved in the match I saw. Coincidence?

quote: I'm rather looking forward to seeing what sort of squad he puts together

As am I – and a bit of gossip here – after we accidentally accosted Tiger’s chief exec on Saturday – Carlos is apparently not ready to give up on the ABs quite yet – it will be another year before he heads north at least.

Also – Pat Howard will be our new coach if he gets a work permit. They want the latter signed and sealed before he is announced.

There are a couple of SH players we are after - but he would not be drawn.

All the above are totally unconfirmed Scuttlebut from the Havak ‘Executive bothering’ tour party.

And it's worth noting the same chap once told us Carlos was definitely coming several seasons ago!

quote: Saracens - the Windies of the rugby world!

As woeful a bunch of biff merchants as we have in our league that’s for sure. God only knows why Richard Hill stays with them.

Even better news the next game is a home fixture against Rotherham on May 1st.

The season then ends with an away match at Wasps – and you know what I think we will win that too becoming the only side to double them this year. Ah if only that world cup hadn’t happened when it did…

	19-04-2004 19:31									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Tigers 38 – Saracens 10 on Friday night Up to sixth - and getting vertigo.

Have you seen how Finbar is quiet now he can't pounce on you no more each time the Tigers are playing.

Stade Toulousain 52 - Football Club de Grenoble 24

Thumbs up for the Grenoblois who kept playing and trying to score until the very last minute of the game. The problem is that the Stade Toulousain was too strong saturday with Cédric Heymans (blonde haired winger ) and Yann Delaigue in their best shape.

Thanks to this victory the Stade Toulousain takes the lead of the second pool.

Two surprises:

Sporting Union Agenais 11 - Stade Français 12
Association Sportive Montferrandaise 15 - Castres Olympique 24

The Sporting Union Agenais is now in a hazardous position, the Castres Olympique is already qualified for the play-off while Montferrand is already preparing itself for the play-down.

	19-04-2004 20:23									#37
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Play Down? Thats a nice expression.

And interesting given our rumoured new coach is coaching Montferand right now.

Good win for Toulouse there.

Finbar will find some way to mock Tigers soon no doubt.

	19-04-2004 21:30									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Play Down? Thats a nice expression.

The teams not qualified for the play-off keep their points and are grouped into a pool. At the end of this second phase, the two lasts go down in ProD2 (our second division).

quote: And interesting given our rumoured new coach is coaching Montferand right now.

I don't know if it is a coaching problem but I am sure it is at the very least a management one, around ten players are about to go away from the club... and almost all the best ones. Since a few years, the Association Sportive Montferrandaise is making the same mistake over and over again. The management is recruiting many players and changing almost half of the team each year, how do you want them to play as a team?

quote: Finbar will find some way to mock Tigers soon no doubt.

I am afraid he will.

	20-04-2004 05:31									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Havak As am I – and a bit of gossip here – after we accidentally accosted Tiger’s chief exec on Saturday – Carlos is apparently not ready to give up on the ABs quite yet – it will be another year before he heads north at least.

It's Mehrtens or him for the AB job. I haven't seen anyone else likely to threaten. And Mehrtens isn't the force he was. I suppose it's up to G. Henry. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if Byron Kelleher popped up at half back. He seems to be born again at his new team.

quote: Also – Pat Howard will be our new coach if he gets a work permit. They want the latter signed and sealed before he is announced.

Watch out. The Brumbies might snaffle him. Though they seem keen on Rodney Kafer, currently under contract over there. There's talk they will appoint an interim coach until Kafer becomes available.

quote: All the above are totally unconfirmed Scuttlebut from the Havak ‘Executive bothering’ tour party.

Never before have I been tempted to feel sorry for A Suit.

quote: Even better news the next game is a home fixture against Rotherham on May 1st.

Goodoh. A victory against the Windies of rugby before tackling the might of the Bangladesh of rugby.

quote: The season then ends with an away match at Wasps – and you know what I think we will win that too becoming the only side to double them this year. Ah if only that world cup hadn’t happened when it did…

I detect the whiff of opium.

	20-04-2004 05:34									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Have you seen how Finbar is quiet now he can't pounce on you no more each time the Tigers are playing.

Which only goes to prove that cricket references are wasted on you!

quote: with Cédric Heymans (blonde haired winger )

A girlie winger is understandable. In fact, it's almost tautology.

	20-04-2004 07:12									#41
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Forgot to mention. There are now reports of England players possibly not making the SH tour unless their pay demands are met, including recompense for "their increased commercial profiles". Good grief. Someone remind them they've just proved themselves the third best team in the NH. And, with the retirement of lantern-jawed 50% of their team, and with the other 50% out of action thanks to his shoulder, maybe the fourth best team in the world.

	20-04-2004 07:51									#42
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Which only goes to prove that cricket references are wasted on you!

Not the least of a clue actually.

I must admit I would like to see a game of Cricket one of these days. It's the Lagaan effect I presume.

	20-04-2004 13:30									#43
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quote: At the end of this second phase, the two lasts go down in ProD2 (our second division).

Relegation play offs – they tried to bring them in here but the top flight clubs vetoed it (all except Tigers IIRC).

quote: The management is recruiting many players and changing almost half of the team each year, how do you want them to play as a team?

But they have the best Hooker in France – Richard Le Cockerill.

quote: I am afraid he will.

He will be sad when we win the treble next year (U-21 league, Reserve league and Parker Pen Shield?)

quote: There's talk they will appoint an interim coach until Kafer becomes available.

It seems Howard is ours so ACT will have to do some quick dealing to stop it happening.

Kafer? Have the ACT board not been watching his performance as head coach of Saracens? One of the most expensive squads in the Premiership – probably the most expensive, an open check book for next year with players signed up from various other clubs (they are taking both the Newcastle and Sale club skippers for starters!) and Rod has managed to just about keep them one place above Rotherham.

Frankly ACT must be mad.

quote: Goodoh. A victory against the Windies of rugby before tackling the might of the Bangladesh of rugby.

Then finishing away against the Australia of English Rugby.

quote: I detect the whiff of opium.

Maybe.

On current form we are actually the best performing side in the league!

quote: There are now reports of England players possibly not making the SH tour unless their pay demands are met, including recompense for "their increased commercial profiles"

This has not been reported here at all – where did you see it? I’m afraid it sounds like typical Aussie newspaper nonsense to me.

It will be a young squad he takes down south anyway – that has been the plan for some time. Lets hope they do better than the 1998 version. And if they win all three tests – sound the death knell of the tri-nations right away will you?

quote: maybe the fourth best team in the world.

Best team in the world – by definition of the expression ‘World Champions’.

	20-04-2004 13:41									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Kafer? Have the ACT board not been watching his performance as head coach of Saracens? One of the most expensive squads in the Premiership – probably the most expensive, an open check book for next year with players signed up from various other clubs (they are taking both the Newcastle and Sale club skippers for starters!) and Rod has managed to just about keep them one place above Rotherham. Frankly ACT must be mad.

Yes, indeed. It's the Old Boys' Club at work. The players want one of their own "in charge". Such is the way the franchise is being run.

quote: This has not been reported here at all – where did you see it? I’m afraid it sounds like typical Aussie newspaper nonsense to me.

Here.

quote: Best team in the world – by definition of the expression ‘World Champions’.

Yes, you get to wear that for four years. Like we did. It's meaningless.

Oh, and Steve Kefu has turned down Saints. Re-signed with Queensland for two years. Have to say I'm surprised, but good on him. The Reds are really going to need his experience with the re-building that's going to have to happen.

	20-04-2004 13:44									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I must admit I would like to see a game of Cricket one of these days.

You should have a look at a tape of England -v- West Indies. Or, better still, watch a tape of those Canadian hunters smashing the white baby seals with baseball bats. The seals put up more of a contest than the West Indians did.

	20-04-2004 15:26									#46
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quote: Yes, indeed. It's the Old Boys' Club at work. The players want one of their own "in charge". Such is the way the franchise is being run.

They will pay for it I fear.

As I feared the contract issue is being slightly mis-represented by that SH based site – it’s not a new issue at all. This contract issue of the way the RFU uses players images for commercial gain has actually been under negotiation for at least 18 months. It has been the case that the players have seen little recompense from their image being plastered all over merchandise - and they are simply trying to slightly correct the balance via their players union not as individual egos.

The site has spun it well by talking of “increased commercial profile” in a totally unattributed quote (i.e. the hack made it up?). It’s a bit silly that they are trying to stoke up ‘arrogant English’ when it’s going to be a bunch of kids going down there helping the local Unions raise stacks of cash again for grass roots rugby.

quote: Yes, you get to wear that for four years. Like we did. It's meaningless.

meaningless – but who cares? We are World Champions so we certainly don’t.

quote: The Reds are really going to need his experience with the re-building that's going to have to happen.

He leveraged his deal – and made the ARU fork out what they had already been paying him as a supposed Wallaby. Did you know they had offered him a reduced deal because of his failure at that level? Clever lad.

Poor Saints – what foreigner will they target now I wonder?

quote: The seals put up more of a contest than the West Indians did.

I have to admit – you made me laugh with this!

*edit*

Oh yes that tag line to the article - about the 98 farce when 14 players withdrew. The players that didn't tour had just played 24 months of continuous rugby because of the Lions tour in 1997. Only the RFU wanted the 98 tour to maintain it's revenue stream. I refer back to my earlier point about hack spin!

Who is Greg Growden? I just know that he and I would not get along.

	20-04-2004 17:50									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Havak They will pay for it I fear.

Sooner or later. The interesting question is how long this Player Power will last at the franchise. There are still a number of the very original Brumbies in situ and they're the ones driving the situation. And they're powerful personalities. I wonder, as they gradually retire, whether the situation will moderate? Obviously it will rub off on the youngsters to some degree, but they're not the powerful personalities the old heads are.

Brumbies -v- Waratahs this week. Plank has already opened fire on his old Brumbies coach, soon to be out of a job. It should be a, um, willing contest all round.

quote: As I feared the contract issue is being slightly mis-represented by that SH based site – it’s not a new issue at all.

It doesn't call it a new issue. It says it's been ongoing. But things are now coming to a head. As, obviously, they must.

quote: The site has spun it well by talking of “increased commercial profile” in a totally unattributed quote (i.e. the hack made it up?). It’s a bit silly that they are trying to stoke up ‘arrogant English’ when it’s going to be a bunch of kids going down there helping the local Unions raise stacks of cash again for grass roots rugby.

I'm wondering how third best team in the NH amounts to an increased commercial profile?

quote: meaningless – but who cares? We are World Champions so we certainly don’t.

Actually, it becomes more embarrassing than meaningless when you start losing!

quote: He leveraged his deal – and made the ARU fork out what they had already been paying him as a supposed Wallaby. Did you know they had offered him a reduced deal because of his failure at that level? Clever lad.

Good on him. Queensland couldn't afford to lose him. They'd've been totally rooted instead of what they currently are - rooted.

quote: Poor Saints – what foreigner will they target now I wonder?

The incumbent AB skipper who can't get a touch in S12?

quote: I have to admit – you made me laugh with this!

Hopefully Tamerlin will get it. When he gets back from Canada with his dented baseball belt and new seal coat.

quote: Who is Greg Growden? I just know that he and I would not get along.

He's our best rugby writer.

	20-04-2004 18:29									#48
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Hopefully Tamerlin will get it. When he gets back from Canada with his dented baseball belt and new seal coat.

Don't worry, I got it !

Though I shouldn't laugh as I would be at the seal's place.

	20-04-2004 19:05									#49
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quote: Obviously it will rub off on the youngsters to some degree, but they're not the powerful personalities the old heads are.

The bottom line is unless the franchise keeps winning things change is inevitable. Ask Dean Richards how much club clique is worth when things go pear shaped.

quote: Brumbies -v- Waratahs this week. Plank has already opened fire on his old Brumbies coach, soon to be out of a job. It should be a, um, willing contest all round.

This one I must try to catch.

quote: It doesn't call it a new issue. It says it's been ongoing. But things are now coming to a head. As, obviously, they must.

But my assertion would that is nonsense. He has picked that out the air. In my opinion there is no chance of any senior squad member not touring because this issue remains unresolved. It’s silly scare mongering at it’s worst from the antipodean Stephen Jones.

quote: I'm wondering how third best team in the NH amounts to an increased commercial profile?

They could finish six from six and they would still be the cash cow of world rugby. There’s no nation with the comparative factors of wealth, participation and population base to milk. Until the US gets serious.

quote: Actually, it becomes more embarrassing than meaningless when you start losing!

I remain unconcerned whilst I can see the reasons. In a way the two losses may prove positive – if they hasten the end of the Dallaglio era so much the better. The Gloucester lard boys proved they are past their best and should be culled, we also need to find a hooker and a backup fly half and a REAL openside - but that’s about it. Not insurmountable – the youth squad may well beat the Wallabies in June (they might get stuffed as well if they let you buggers overawe them) .

Mind you in some ways the matches with Graham’s first picks may be more interesting. NZ rugby has a point to prove and I’m sure they will want to do it to white shirts before later doing it to wattle ones?

quote: The incumbent AB skipper who can't get a touch in S12?

Saints probably don’t need a back row – I wonder if he might join Sarries (Taine is there) when Graham drops him?

But remember Taine had a storming S12 last season – and got ignored. So on that basis RT may stay the skipper of the ABs?

quote: He's our best rugby writer.

My sincere sympathies.

Tamerlin has nightmares about being a seal? That’s a visual representation of his fears of seeing the Toulouse fullback stampeded over by Larry Dally and the Wasps boys.

I no doubt deserve the barrage I will soon face.

	20-04-2004 19:18									#50
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Tony Spreadbury will be refereeing the match between Toulouse and Biarritz Olympique. He replaced Chris White in the 2003 Final between Toulouse and Perpignan, when White was injured.

I seem to recall Tamerlin was not impressed with him?

It could be worse - the other teams have Nigel Williams (Wales)

	20-04-2004 19:32									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I seem to recall Tamerlin was not impressed with him?

Pots and kettles...

	20-04-2004 19:39									#52
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Well I'll get to see Crusaders v Bulls and Waratahs v Brumbies this weekend. Obviously I'll be supporting the Crusaders in their game against the Bulls, but I'm undecided as to who I should support in Waratahs v Brumbies. Normally I support any team that's playing the Brumbies, but if the Waratahs win this one it'll make it that much harder for the NZ teams to get into the top 4.

	21-04-2004 05:25									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The bottom line is unless the franchise keeps winning things change is inevitable. Ask Dean Richards how much club clique is worth when things go pear shaped.

Too true. The fact is, they've probably coached themselves for the last couple of years, which might explain the sudden lapses. But when the change happens, it's going to need to be a total change - from admin down. The current admin is culpable in the existing circumstances.

quote: But my assertion would that is nonsense. He has picked that out the air. In my opinion there is no chance of any senior squad member not touring because this issue remains unresolved. It’s silly scare mongering at it’s worst from the antipodean Stephen Jones.

But he's touched a raw nerve. We shall see what transpires. If the contractual stuff isn't sorted out, there could be a wave of minor but crucial injuries amongst the squad.

quote: They could finish six from six and they would still be the cash cow of world rugby.

There's always next season.

quote: I remain unconcerned whilst I can see the reasons.

Fair enough, but you're not picking the team. As you've already indicated, the selection signs thus far haven't been promising.

quote: if they hasten the end of the Dallaglio era so much the better. The Gloucester lard boys proved they are past their best and should be culled, we also need to find a hooker and a backup fly half and a REAL openside - but that’s about it.

That's about it?! A whole new front row? Two thirds of a back row? You forgot to mention a decent partner for your Uncle Ben - given that Uncle Ben proves to be up to it out of Lantern Jaw's shadow. So that's 6/8 of a pack you're looking for.

quote: if they let you buggers overawe them

There's every chance.

quote: But remember Taine had a storming S12 last season – and got ignored. So on that basis RT may stay the skipper of the ABs?

You've overlooked the possibility of G. Henry bringing back T. Randall!

quote: Tamerlin has nightmares about being a seal?

Thanks for reminding me to pack a baseball bat for my trip to France.

	21-04-2004 05:29									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Well I'll get to see Crusaders v Bulls and Waratahs v Brumbies this weekend. Obviously I'll be supporting the Crusaders in their game against the Bulls, but I'm undecided as to who I should support in Waratahs v Brumbies. Normally I support any team that's playing the Brumbies, but if the Waratahs win this one it'll make it that much harder for the NZ teams to get into the top 4.

Support the Waratahs. Support for the Brumbies is support for the notion of players running a franchise. Only one Kiwi team can make the finals anyway - probably Crusaders - and the Waratahs, if they make it, will knock out one of the Bok outfits. Probably the Sharks.

	21-04-2004 15:02									#55
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quote: The current admin is culpable in the existing circumstances.

Again I believe that such change will become inevitable if success proves elusive. How many sporting franchises can ‘do an ostrich’ in such circumstances?

quote: If the contractual stuff isn't sorted out, there could be a wave of minor but crucial injuries amongst the squad.

Unlikely – Clive made it clear after the 2001 ‘strike’ debacle that such nonsense would not be tolerated again. Is he a man of his word? If he is any dubious injuries should prevent further selection – ever.

It is a sore point in one way – the Wallaby lads already have their image rights tied up in a nice little package I believe?

quote: There's always next season.

Next RWC? France triumphant and Aus, NZ and England out at the pool stage. Ireland beaten in the final because they always lose the big important games.

quote: As you've already indicated, the selection signs thus far haven't been promising.

Please say something to make me feel better!!!

quote: So that's 6/8 of a pack you're looking for.

And strangely only one Tiger featured in the pack after the RWC. Which may help explain where I am coming from?

I think Julian White has to now be given the tight head berth – Vickery is shadow of the player he was pre his injury last year. Woodman is a penalty-leaking machine so loose head remains a problem – I’d recall Graham Rowntree in the short term.

The other lock I would pick the youngsters Deacon or Palmer maybe. Loose forwards – Martin Corry, Moody when fit, young Will Skinner. Chris Jones in a few more years maybe. There’s a young hooker called Friswell kicking around who may replace pie boy. And long term Jonny’s back up has to be Hodgson until Broadfoot is ready to step in.

So – how many non Tigers do you think I named?

quote: There's every chance.

They shouldn’t – it’s not like you are the current holders of anything.

Ooh – low blow!!

quote: You've overlooked the possibility of G. Henry bringing back T. Randall!

Under contract to Sarries for another season I believe. In so much as that matters.

quote: Thanks for reminding me to pack a baseball bat for my trip to France.

	21-04-2004 15:38									#56
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Do you think Tuqiri will return to the other code btw?

	21-04-2004 17:54									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Again I believe that such change will become inevitable if success proves elusive. How many sporting franchises can ‘do an ostrich’ in such circumstances?

Yes, but I don't quite know how you turf out an admin when the admin owns the franchise. I think that's the case with the Brumbies anyway. For example, Steve Larkham's old man is currently head of the ACTRU (or whatever it's called) that has a big stake in the Brumbies.

quote: It is a sore point in one way – the Wallaby lads already have their image rights tied up in a nice little package I believe?

Yes, all sorted out prior to the World Cup. Bringing about much bad blood between players and admin.

quote: Next RWC? France triumphant and Aus, NZ and England out at the pool stage. Ireland beaten in the final because they always lose the big important games.

Next 6 Nations:

1. France
2. Ireland
3. Wales
4. Italy
5. Scotland
6. The other mob

quote: I think Julian White has to now be given the tight head berth – Vickery is shadow of the player he was pre his injury last year. Woodman is a penalty-leaking machine so loose head remains a problem – I’d recall Graham Rowntree in the short term. The other lock I would pick the youngsters Deacon or Palmer maybe. Loose forwards – Martin Corry, Moody when fit, young Will Skinner. Chris Jones in a few more years maybe. There’s a young hooker called Friswell kicking around who may replace pie boy. And long term Jonny’s back up has to be Hodgson until Broadfoot is ready to step in.

Goodoh. A whole new pack. That which was your greatest strength. Prepare for some pastings.

That aside, as I've said all along, your biggest loss is You Know Who. There's no obvious replacement, so everyone else is going to have to lift of their own accord rather than be lifted and driven.

quote: So – how many non Tigers do you think I named?

The masseur?

quote: They shouldn’t – it’s not like you are the current holders of anything. Ooh – low blow!!

Not at all. Absolutely no pressure. We can sit back and watch the incumbents rattling down the slippery slide.

	21-04-2004 18:05									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Do you think Tuqiri will return to the other code btw?

Bloody well hope not. He could be anything in rugby. He did a couple of magical things last weekend - immaculate off-loads as he was hitting the ground, that sort of thing. There's obviously some contract cranking going on. The ARU will always be able to top the L***** money, but I think there are other factors involved - the serious travelling our players have to do, disrupting family, et al. I keep reading bits and pieces to the effect that he will stay because of the scope rugby offers that L***** doesn't, but who knows? Matt Rogers will be the next cab off the negotiating rank. Can't afford to lose him either!

Hark! Is that Tamerlin's new winter jacket I hear "arf"-ing?

	21-04-2004 18:35									#59
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Support the Waratahs. Support for the Brumbies is support for the notion of players running a franchise. Only one Kiwi team can make the finals anyway - probably Crusaders - and the Waratahs, if they make it, will knock out one of the Bok outfits. Probably the Sharks.

But if the Waratahs lose it'll make it easier for another NZ team to make it. Besides, I'm not so sure I'm totally against the idea of players running a franchise. Live and let live - I thought that was your attitude towards it too...?

	21-04-2004 18:36									#60
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Next 6 Nations: 1. France 2. Ireland 3. Wales 4. Italy 5. Scotland 6. The other mob