07-06-2004 23:06									#481
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It's almost time for a new thread, so I've been tossing around ideas for the new title. The two I have so far continue the "Swinging Handbags" theme as they are other amusing comments I have heard uttered by commentators during a brawl.

Rugby - Bit of a Kiss n' Cuddle

Rugby - Exchanging Phone Numbers

	08-06-2004 05:30									#482
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog I think it will be Merhts. He had a fantastic trial game, turning it around just like he did the Super 12 final, but this time his side was only 13 down when he arrived on the field, as opposed to 33. Thanks to some sharp running and excellent wide passes, he managed to swing the team around to a win this time. Huge influence on the result.

Yes, he looked good when he came on in both matches. Unfortunately I missed the first half of the trial match so I didn't see Carlos in action. Does Mehrtens look to have amended his game to you? Involving himself more? Running more?

	08-06-2004 05:40									#483
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Never. It’s not a case of recalling anything positive you said of him but rather thinking back to the least negative. In an early exchange re: his impact on and off field in Oz you almost conceded at one point that you wouldn’t say he had no playing talent.

Obviously a bout of hyperbole. It soon passed.

quote: Did I mention that ACT player power Mr Paul had met with Tigers about a possible move btw?

Fair enough. He's only ever a Canon injury away from the Wallabies job. I'm not sure why he's looking (effectively) to retire.

quote: In other news England wrapped up the series against the Kiwi’s in the cricket – taking an unassailable two test lead. The Kiwi youngster Vittori has badly done in his hamstring in the process. So England 1 NZ 0 this week – I’ll enjoy it whilst I can!!

Yes, and Trescothic did it again, another century against an attack best described as honest. More false hope.

	08-06-2004 05:42									#484
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog 3rd test looks a major worry with Vettori out as well.

Seems to me that, as their only spinner, his use as a stock bowler has dulled his penetration anyway.

	08-06-2004 05:43									#485
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin They are all playing at the Stade Toulousain...

Bees to the money honey pot! Or even flies to the crottin!

	08-06-2004 05:53									#486
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia It's almost time for a new thread, so I've been tossing around ideas for the new title. The two I have so far continue the "Swinging Handbags" theme as they are other amusing comments I have heard uttered by commentators during a brawl. Rugby - Bit of a Kiss n' Cuddle Rugby - Exchanging Phone Numbers

Yes, they're in the same vein as the current title, and they're largely SH expressions. I think we're best off with the actual game-related oddities. One Havak would certainly hate because he hates the term:

Rugby - Truck and Trailer!

Which is the refs' description for shepherding.

	08-06-2004 13:07									#487
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Yes I hate truck and trailer! Donlt let that influence you though! Personally my choice would be Rugby – Sir Clive has lost it big time

The big news of the day of course is that the Australian version of play school showed a clip where two lesbian mothers took their daughter to the zoo. No less a figure than the noted liberal Aussie PM has got involved in that. I’m sure Finbar will have a POV on Howard getting involved?

quote: I'm not sure why he's looking (effectively) to retire.

Well that could read badly on Tigers who are after all a much bigger franchise than Brumbies – but I know you meant internationally really?

quote: Yes, and Trescothic did it again, another century against an attack best described as honest. More false hope.

Everyone is scoring runs but Vaughan right now. The real false hope could be the young lad Strauss – it was his fourth test innings before he scored less than 50. The pressure that will put on him will truly give him the acid test now.

One player who has come of age is ‘Freddie’ Flintoff. As a youngster he looked overweight, unfit and rather average all round. His is now in shape and whilst still a farily mediocre bowler his batting has improved considerably. He is capable of scoring runs against any attack.

Having said that Vaughans silly talk yesterday of the next ashes being competitive is just wishful thinking.

quote: Seems to me that, as their only spinner, his use as a stock bowler has dulled his penetration anyway.

But without him their seam attack is all too similar. There is no real pace in it either.

The side has been named – and I’m more worried now!

England: J Lewsey (Wasps); J Simpson-Daniel (Gloucester), M Tindall (Bath), M Catt (London Irish), B Cohen (Northampton); C Hodgson (Sale), M Dawson (Northampton); T Woodman (Sale Sharks), S Thompson (Northampton), J White (Leicester), S Shaw (Wasps), D Grewcock (Bath), C Jones (Sale Sharks), R Hill (Saracens), L Dallaglio (Wasps, capt).
Replacements: M Regan (Leeds), M Stevens (Bath), S Borthwick (Bath), J Worsley (Wasps), A Gomarsall (Gloucester), S Abbott (Wasps), T Voyce (Wasps).

So Corry and Ellis do not make the 22. Jones at blindside. We are playing a team full of S12 flankers and Clive chooses to play his own young equivalent of them. Sheesh. Simpson-Daniel on the wing – fast but lightweight, it’s Lomu-Underwood all over again! Catt outside Hodgson – well that makes sense to take the pressure of Charlie.

But that bench! Regan? I am now sorry we concussed Titterall when we played Sale! Stevens – looked adrift in the Bath side that lost the final. Borthwick cannot handle an NZ side. Worseley instead of Corry – no power or bulk again. Gomersall and Abbott have not been in form. Voyce is a very lightweight winger so if the ABs walk all over S-D we are buggered.

He has picked a light weight and mobile side to face a team that has mastered that way of playing. Oh god I’m going to have to watch this shambles and front up here next week.

Thank god we are world champions for another 3.5 years.

I think it may be time for Clive to move upstairs personally – this team selection sucks.

	08-06-2004 13:09									#488
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Bees to the money honey pot! Or even flies to the crottin!

You certainly mean: C'est donner du lard à des cochons.

Once again I propose the title:

Rugby: the Noble Game (at least in the NH)...

	08-06-2004 13:51									#489
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Does Mehrtens look to have amended his game to you? Involving himself more? Running more?

Yes on both counts. In the super12 final we saw him amongst the thick of it a lot more, and he even broke the line once or twice. I don't think he once took a wrong option.

Unfortunately however, he's been shafted again. Seems like the pre-requisite for the number 10 NZ jearsy is to have a shite haircut and play a like an amatuer.

Starting XV: Kees Meeuws, Keven Mealamu, Carl Hayman, Chris Jack, Keith Robinson, Jono Gibbes, Richard McCaw, Xavier Rush, Justin Marshall, Carlos Spencer, Joe Rokocoko, Daniel Carter, Tana Umaga (capt) Doug Howlett, Mils Muliaina.
Reserves: Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock, Jerry Collins, Marty Holah, Byron Kelleher, Nick Evans, Sam Tuitupou.

So very disappointing that Mehrtens isn't in the squad. You need experience and stability against the English. In Evans, we don't have the experience and in Spencer we don't have the stability.

At Super 12 and NPC level, Carlos is fantastic, and he's played some great international games, but frankly - he's no Mehrtens in the tight and tense games. Henry should have introduced a rookie such as Evans against one of the other teams to be played latter on - like the Pacific Islands or Argentina, and had Mehrtens on the bench.

	08-06-2004 14:25									#490
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quote: Originally posted by Havak He has picked a light weight and mobile side to face a team that has mastered that way of playing. Oh god I’m going to have to watch this shambles and front up here next week.

Yes it's hard to see where Clive is going with this team. I get that Catty is there to take the heat off of Hodgson but i'm not so sure Cohen has earnt his place there this season and wonder if JSD has improved his defence enough to warrant his starting wing slot.

Looks like a reactive team to me.

I suspect Jones was a late selection to the English pack - a reaction to the selection of Gibbes in the ABs announced earlier in the day perhaps?

	08-06-2004 14:25									#491
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Starting XV: Kees Meeuws, Keven Mealamu, Carl Hayman, Chris Jack, Keith Robinson, Jono Gibbes, Richard McCaw, Xavier Rush, Justin Marshall, Carlos Spencer, Joe Rokocoko, Daniel Carter, Tana Umaga (capt) Doug Howlett, Mils Muliaina. Reserves: Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock, Jerry Collins, Marty Holah, Byron Kelleher, Nick Evans, Sam Tuitupou.

Where are the forwards?

	08-06-2004 15:04									#492
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18 months ago Cohen was on fire. With the exception of Stade de France where he had an excellent second half he has been very muted since (including the world cup). He has a very good record against SH sides I suppose - but Clive always says he picks on form not reputation.

Jones may have been a reaction to Gibbes as you say - although Clive has been making positive noises about him for months. What I think Clive has failed to take on baord is that Jones has 'starred' in a pack that has had a torrid second half of the season partly because Chris likes to wander off on the wing.

I still feel a more physical presence at 6 would have been better - particularly with Carlos in the cross hairs.

Injury has caused Clive problems - and the Churchill cup has split resources - but looking at this selection I would rather the Churchill squad was down there I think.

Oh well - c'est la vie.

	08-06-2004 17:25									#493
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Yes I hate truck and trailer!

Sufficient reason for me to insist it's the new title!

quote: Personally my choice would be Rugby – Sir Clive has lost it big time

OT forum perusers might think it's a thread about curry powder.

quote: The big news of the day of course is that the Australian version of play school showed a clip where two lesbian mothers took their daughter to the zoo. No less a figure than the noted liberal Aussie PM has got involved in that. I’m sure Finbar will have a POV on Howard getting involved?

Don't get me started! But seeing you already have - it has brought every neanderthal thinker crawling out of the local woodwork. Naturally, the little turd who masquerades as our Prime Minister has brought the full might of his 1950s methodist wisdom to the matter. He was, prior to this, rushing through legislation to prohibit same-sex marriages. Say no more.

quote: Well that could read badly on Tigers who are after all a much bigger franchise than Brumbies – but I know you meant internationally really?

To quote Tamerlin in situations like this -

quote: Everyone is scoring runs but Vaughan right now. The real false hope could be the young lad Strauss – it was his fourth test innings before he scored less than 50. The pressure that will put on him will truly give him the acid test now.

Yes. The true test is against truly highly class bowling. Hullo Mr Trescothic?

quote: One player who has come of age is ‘Freddie’ Flintoff. As a youngster he looked overweight, unfit and rather average all round. His is now in shape and whilst still a farily mediocre bowler his batting has improved considerably. He is capable of scoring runs against any attack.

Yes. Always had tons of potential. Needed to lose weight and apply himself. Hopefully he's seen the light.

quote: Having said that Vaughans silly talk yesterday of the next ashes being competitive is just wishful thinking.

Currently, our batting is massively stronger than our bowling. McGrath is only just back from a long injury layoff and there's no guarantee, at his age, that he will come back as good. If he doesn't, Gillespie, a wonderful bowler, will need better support than what was on offer last season.

quote: But without him their seam attack is all too similar. There is no real pace in it either.

No, just honest medium-fasts. And I don't think Vettori has been a bona fide threat for a few seasons now. Not just because he's been used as a stock bowler, I think he's been carrying a back injury too.

quote: The side has been named – and I’m more worried now! England: J Lewsey (Wasps); J Simpson-Daniel (Gloucester), M Tindall (Bath), M Catt (London Irish), B Cohen (Northampton); C Hodgson (Sale), M Dawson (Northampton); T Woodman (Sale Sharks), S Thompson (Northampton), J White (Leicester), S Shaw (Wasps), D Grewcock (Bath), C Jones (Sale Sharks), R Hill (Saracens), L Dallaglio (Wasps, capt). Replacements: M Regan (Leeds), M Stevens (Bath), S Borthwick (Bath), J Worsley (Wasps), A Gomarsall (Gloucester), S Abbott (Wasps), T Voyce (Wasps). So Corry and Ellis do not make the 22. Jones at blindside. We are playing a team full of S12 flankers and Clive chooses to play his own young equivalent of them. Sheesh. Simpson-Daniel on the wing – fast but lightweight, it’s Lomu-Underwood all over again! Catt outside Hodgson – well that makes sense to take the pressure of Charlie. But that bench! Regan? I am now sorry we concussed Titterall when we played Sale! Stevens – looked adrift in the Bath side that lost the final. Borthwick cannot handle an NZ side. Worseley instead of Corry – no power or bulk again. Gomersall and Abbott have not been in form. Voyce is a very lightweight winger so if the ABs walk all over S-D we are buggered. He has picked a light weight and mobile side to face a team that has mastered that way of playing. Oh god I’m going to have to watch this shambles and front up here next week.

Mmmmm. I don't know 30% of this team. I shall watch with interest.

quote: Thank god we are world champions for another 3.5 years.

Welcome to the label of World Champions.

	08-06-2004 19:59									#494
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Yes, they're in the same vein as the current title, and they're largely SH expressions. I think we're best off with the actual game-related oddities. One Havak would certainly hate because he hates the term: Rugby - Truck and Trailer! Which is the refs' description for shepherding.

Have we used Rugby - Lazy Running! yet?

	09-06-2004 05:05									#495
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No, but I don't think it's terribly intriguing anyway.

	09-06-2004 05:25									#496
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A 2nd & 3rd Waratahs XV rolled Scotland 33-15 last night. Scotland fielded their "midweek" team but the Waratahs really were a baby outfit with youth being tried out to test their potential for next season. The match wasn't televised. According to the press this morning, Scotland were strong in set pieces, adept at slowing the ball down, but their game was non-existent past #12. The baby Waratahs quickly realised that any ball spun wide was bound to succeed and off they went. End of story. Matt Williams sounded very very depressed by the effort.

Oh, and G. Henry has gone with Carlos against England. Mehrtens doesn't even make the bench.

Mils Muliaina; Doug Howlett, Tana Umaga (captain), Daniel Carter, Joe Rokocoko, Carlos Spencer, Justin Marshall; Kees Meeuws, Keven Mealamu, Carl Hayman, Keith Robinson, Chris Jack, Jono Gibbes, Ritchie McCaw, Xavier Rush.

Replacements: Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock, Jerry Collins, Marty Holah, Byron Kelleher, Nick Evans, Sam Tuitupou.

Last edited by finbar on 09-06-2004 at 05:39

	09-06-2004 12:59									#497
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quote: He was, prior to this, rushing through legislation to prohibit same-sex marriages. Say no more.

At least you are not led by a Scotsman who affects an English public school accent.

quote: Hullo Mr Trescothic?

Yes indeed. Another classy century against mediocre bowling. It keeps him in the mix even when he keeps failing against top class bowling.

quote: Hopefully he's seen the light.

Seems to have. Lets see next year.

quote: Currently, our batting is massively stronger than our bowling

The same still holds true for us. Although the bowling line up is looking better than it has in years.

quote: Mmmmm. I don't know 30% of this team. I shall watch with interest.

It’s all right for you – not only do I have huge fears for the selection he has made I have to get up at 7am on Saturday to catch it! Still if the Boks decide to play that match is (much) later and may provide some enjoyment.

Shaw incidentally spent a season in NZ back in the early 90s and played for a side called the Pirates at the house of pain quite regularly. He says he loves the place as the ‘students in the crowd go nuts’?

quote: Welcome to the label of World Champions.

Sack Clive, get Jonno at the helm and maybe we’ll keep the label.

Hmm you know Tamerlin had a point – that Kiwi pack doesn’t look too threatening. Unless I’m just looking for hope somewhere. At least Thommo won’t be the worst hooker on the field anyway.

	09-06-2004 15:22									#498
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Andydog sniffs around the hook

Ahh yes, the old Havak-Tamerlin 'lets-bash-the-kiwi-forwards' tag team duo.

Well, don't be too quick to write off our forwards. And here’s why:

Henry and the boys know full well that the way to take care of the pom pack to ruck ruck ruck the shite out of them! Last year the pommy forwards slowed down possession at the breakdown so much so that our backline was starved of time and space when the ball eventually filtered out to them. The answer is rucking!

Mitchell announced just before last year’s World Cup that the ABs no longer ruck. I think that absolutely ludicrous!

I’ll bet you anything you like that Henry has instructed our boys to dish out a shoe-pie or two in the opening exchanges – thus sending a strong message that slowing down possession won’t be tolerated. Listed for the “99!!” call when you see the first Englishman put his grubby filthy mitt into the ruck – it’s a cue for AB forwards to pile in and hit the nearest white shirt!

So there you are. McCaw, Gibbes, Rush - I'm telling you these boys were selected primarily because they have absolutely no qualms with dealing out a bit of rough justice! And fair play to them, there is nothing wrong with a bit of slipper early on just to soften up the oppo. McCaw needs to take a few flyers at Hodgson, and the blokes need to pile into rucks and mauls all arms and legs.

Bring on the World Champions!

	09-06-2004 15:32									#499
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Oh, and G. Henry has gone with Carlos against England. Mehrtens doesn't even make the bench.

Yes, dissapointing (as I said above ). It seems that not many back home are surpirsed - Spencer and Henry have a history going waaaaay back to when he was first head hunted from Horowhenua (where I grew up actually).

Perhaps a 'last chance' clause here for Carlos?

	09-06-2004 17:19									#500
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Excellent stuff – this thread has missed your keen wit!

I love the idea of the Kiwi pack making a 99 call – better make sure there are eight stretchers handy to get your lads to hospital quickly.

The only thing funnier is the idea that Richie McCaw – an openside of the old school fully versed in killing ball – will be dealing out natural justice to others doing the same. The other two lads are too inexperienced for me to know if the mantle of ‘justice dealer’ is similarly hypocritical for them.

Have you missed the retirement of Neil back (Mr kill-ball himself)– the back row Clive is fielding is Hill-Dallaglio-Jones. Dally can kill ball with the best of ‘em (binned in his last outing for it in fact) but Hilly is going to be physical – he is going to hammer into your lads and drive them off the ball whenever possible (on the flip side this makes him an awful 7 at times). Jones as I have said I do not rate as a traditional 6 but he is big and very quick – I’m sure he will say hello to Carlos a few times.

I really don’t think you are going to win this up front – move it wide quickly and have the big ‘kiwis’ in your backline run over Simpson-Daniel and into Cohen and Lewsey (both of whom tackle well but intelligent use of runners so one is always aiming at S-D and you are laughing). S-D is certainly the weak link as his defence would not impress an asthmatic ant – if I know this you can bet Henry does.

Given that Henry has humiliated Mehrtens now I wonder if his move is back on? I loved Graham’s comment that Mehrthens looked better in the trial game only because the forwards got a bit more ‘go forward’ in front of him.

	09-06-2004 18:06									#501
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quote: Originally posted by Havak At least you are not led by a Scotsman who affects an English public school accent.

Better that than a spineless, racist specimen of 1950s methodist sensibilities.

quote: It’s all right for you – not only do I have huge fears for the selection he has made I have to get up at 7am on Saturday to catch it!

Cripes! Hardly worth going to bed.

quote: Shaw incidentally spent a season in NZ back in the early 90s and played for a side called the Pirates at the house of pain quite regularly. He says he loves the place as the ‘students in the crowd go nuts’?

Two of my closer friends are from there. Well, he's from there, she's from a wee bit further west. Nice little town. The scarfies give it atmosphere. On Uni holidays, it's a ghost town.

quote: Hmm you know Tamerlin had a point –

I know where he was today. Popped up to Paris to attend the re-burying of that bloody little grenouille prince's heart.

	09-06-2004 18:11									#502
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Yes, dissapointing (as I said above ). It seems that not many back home are surpirsed - Spencer and Henry have a history going waaaaay back to when he was first head hunted from Horowhenua (where I grew up actually). Perhaps a 'last chance' clause here for Carlos?

Well, he has his chance. Let's see what happens. Though a better test will be the first Bledisloe Cup match.

Oh, and Havak's utter hatred of the term truck & trailer makes it two votes for Rugby - Truck & Trailer!.

	09-06-2004 19:32									#503
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Bledisloe? tests?

When did they receive that elevated status? I always thought they were now friendly little games of S12 writ large? I had no idea they gave you guys CAPS for them still - what is the world coming to?

	09-06-2004 22:41									#504
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New thread guys...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=116548