14-04-2004 21:36									#1
	New 3 Player SMAC(X) Game Enter the AD-FREE zone

Any interest?

I propose either a standard 3 player game (With somewhat tweaked ai I hope) or a 3x2 where we all get two factions each (possibly chosen by the opposing players?)

large map, normal lifeforms, rainfall, rockiness etc. Sea content chosen by the CMN. No permapacts (Except between the two factions controlled by one player if we go that route natch!)

What say you?

C

	16-04-2004 18:04									#2
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i am interested but i would not want to play a large map. they take far too long and it will never get finished.

however if on a normal map i would be down for any of those options.

	18-04-2004 04:22									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk Any interest? I propose either a standard 3 player game (With somewhat tweaked ai I hope) or a 3x2 where we all get two factions each (possibly chosen by the opposing players?) C

Hmmm, I haven't beaten the crap out of Chaunk in quite a while! I'm also really interested in the 3 X 2 format, having never played a game this way before. Also concerning a tweaked AI: I hope this would include Googlie's Probe Cruiser - I have to say personally it has really added new dimensions of gameplay for me, as before this I never had to worry about the AI coming across the sea and MC'ing my bases, and now it seems every other turn I've got to scramble to keep those dammm cruisers away from my unprotected bases!


D

	18-04-2004 18:30									#4
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And then there were three!

We do now need a CMN, as well as a proposed list of tweaks... Certainly the probe cruiser should be on there but I'm open to suggestions by you guys. The AI NEEDS advantages like more units, better terrain, preterraformed etc, as they'd be outnumbered 2:1 by any one player in a 3x2.

If you guys are up for choosing each others factions, then I propose we each PM the CMN two factions, one builder and one momentum faction. The CMN then gives each of us a builder faction and momentum faction, one from each of our oponants.

I thought that might need clarifying, so here goes:
PM's to CMN contain:
Chaunk - Uni & believers
ChairmanSlick - Morgan & Cult
Darsnan - Cycon & Cult

We would then end up with the following combinations:
Chaunk - Morgan & Cult
ChairmanSlick - Cycon & Believers
Darsnan - Uni & Cult

The remaining AI would be chosen by the CMN.

Otherwise we can all choose our own factions, duplicates allowed.

ChairmanSlick - I find standard to be quite claustrophobic at times, there's rarely enough room to expand with seven factions. Can we settle on a size in the middle of large & standard?

Darsnan - Beating the crap out of me? In your dreams buddy!

Any comments questions? Otherwise, I shall go and find a CMN tomorrow evening (GMT).

C

	18-04-2004 19:16									#5
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sounds terrific...

ok on the size

i want to choose my factions = i want UoP and Hive.

question : do our factions start together??

if they do not then i would like to change to Aki and Yang.

if they do :as stated -- Zakharov and Yang.

	18-04-2004 20:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk Any comments questions? Otherwise, I shall go and find a CMN tomorrow evening (GMT).

Comments:

1. I would like the Pirates and Gaians.

2. As far as CMN's go, I can see if Googlie is interested in "experimenting" on us. Let me know and I can approach him and see. Rubin and johndmuller might also be available. FYI unless you've already got someone in mind, Chaunk.

3. The larger the world the better, but I am not stuck on it being Large or Huge.

4. Beefed up AI's, maybe to include some interesting SP's to boot.

5. Extra starting units: 3 Scouts, 3 CP's, 3 Formers (note: for the Pirates it should probably be scaled back to one Scoutship, 3 Sea Formers, 3 Seapods, especially if playing on a smaller map).

6. Turn rotation should be set so that each player's two Factions are sequential, and that we also take advantage of the International dateline. Best rotation would probably be Chaunk, Darsnan, ChairmanSlick, or a derivation thereof. Does this sound correct?

Oh yeah,

quote: Darsnan - Beating the crap out of me? In your dreams buddy!

I didn't know you lived in the state of De Nial!?! Anyways, sounds like the CMN should set the "Trashtalking" option to "ENABLED"!


D

	19-04-2004 00:41									#7
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Darsnan: PM box full. Empty it please.
(Might as well say that before Chaunk has to post it himself)

The rest of you:
I've never seen a DUAL faction game. Send me the results, as I'd like to see how the Uni carries the Cult, or Morgan carries the Believers.

	19-04-2004 02:10									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Darsnan: PM box full. Empty it please.

Done. Sorry about that. I'll look into sending you some maps from games that aren't currently going on.

quote: I've never seen a DUAL faction game. Send me the results, as I'd like to see how the Uni carries the Cult, or Morgan carries the Believers.

Their a different twist, and theres at least one other "3 X 2" going on right now, if I'm not mistaken. You may want to look that up and see if someone will send you a turn. If not, we can keep you posted (at least until Chaunk gets eliminated, that is......).


D

	19-04-2004 02:30									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan If not, we can keep you posted (at least until Chaunk gets eliminated, that is......). D

It looks as if you made a mistake here D, it should have said:

quote: Originally posted by Darsnan If not, we can keep you posted (at least until I get eliminated, that is......). D

Factions, I'll go Morgan & Believers I think, so long as we play SMAX.

I too think the larger the world the better (I admit it, I'm a builder at heart!), but so long as it's larger than standard I'm ok.

I'm ok with more units to beat Darsnan up with, a CMN of your choice D, and the turn order proposed. I should like to have Morgan -> Believers in the turn order please!

Lets get this bad boy on the road

C

	19-04-2004 09:54									#10
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I can set this up for you (I have set up a couple of other 3 x 2's - but both with no AI in the game)

If 7 factions I'd suggest the large map - if 6, then a custom smaller variant perhaps. But with 3 players a large map shouldn't drag the game down

Chaunk - Morgan & Believers
Darsnan - Pirates & Gaians
ChairmanSlick - UoP & Hive

(By start together do you mean sequentially in turn order, or adjacent to each other on the map?)

Start with 3 scouts (1 sloop for the pirates), 3cp's and (Darsnan, do you want to give away the Gaians centauri ecology advantage) 3 formers to each faction (seaformers for the Pirates?)

If an AI, I'll see what I can do to make it an interesting competitor

	19-04-2004 10:35									#11
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do our factions start next to each other on the map---

coz. if they are seperate i would like aki since i think she can handle herself better than zak.

If our factions do start together on the map then yes... Zak and Yang.

Another question: probably obvious to u guys... but will sercret projects affect BOTH of our factions or just one??

I guess it goes without saying that they will have seperate economies an seperate research-- does it??

i do not mind if they are seperate-- just curious and am preparing my self for the onslaught...

	19-04-2004 11:29									#12
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Hi Googlie,

thanx for setting this up for us!

quote: Originally posted by Googlie (By start together do you mean sequentially in turn order, or adjacent to each other on the map?) Start with 3 scouts (1 sloop for the pirates), 3cp's and (Darsnan, do you want to give away the Gaians centauri ecology advantage) 3 formers to each faction (seaformers for the Pirates?) If an AI, I'll see what I can do to make it an interesting competitor

By start together I mean sequentialy in turn order. Giving up the Gaian advantage of Centauri Ecology in the early game is OK, and Sea Formers are a definate Yes for the Pirates. Sea Monoliths would also be a nice touch, but may help the Pirates too much.

I'd like an AI, but not stuck on it. Maybe Hmnneee with the PDL, or Roze floating around lots of Probe Cruisers.

quote: Another question: probably obvious to u guys... but will sercret projects affect BOTH of our factions or just one??

Only the one Faction possessing the SP.


D

	19-04-2004 12:17									#13
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The faction teams I would figure are:

Uni//Hive
CyCon//Drones
Morgan//Believers
Gaians//PKs

That's if you're starting apart, and thus do not have access to the starting tech of the other faction.

For a tech-fling straight to IA,
Angels//Morgan is the way to go.
If you're looking to snatch the SoftHB,
Uni//Cult is your best bet.
For Impact Rovers,
Spartans//CyCon is the way to aim.

Many possible combinations.
In such a game, I'd likely go Uni//Hive, second to Gaians//PKs.

	19-04-2004 19:12									#14
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ok so i still don't know answer to my question:


In this game do our faction start seperately on the map.... OR adjacent to each other???

AND will they be doing there own SEPERATE research and earning there own SEPERATE energy credits??????

	19-04-2004 19:13									#15
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btw... thanks Googlie -- top stuff mate

	19-04-2004 20:59									#16
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I would hope that starting separately or not, they would start in contact with one another. I certainly don't want to have to wander over to where my other faction is just so I can trade centauri ecology for example.

Secret projects only affect one faction, each does their own research and building etc. Completely separate to most intents and purposes.

Googlie, whatever you think with regard to an AI and therefore map size. I'm quite partial to an AI, and Darsnan's idea for an alien ai sounds good. I'm somewhat against giving the ai an SP if you can avoid it though. I'd much rather they were all still buildable.

Request that we allow stockpile energy in build queues as a house rule, and otherwise use standard 'Poly rules.

C

	20-04-2004 05:36									#17
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quote: Originally posted by ChairmanSlick In this game do our faction start seperately on the map.... OR adjacent to each other??? AND will they be doing there own SEPERATE research and earning there own SEPERATE energy credits??????

I've never played a 3 X 2 before so really can't answer whether a players 2 Factions start adjacent each other or not ( I don't care either way myself). Each Faction will be doing their own research and earning their own energy credits, but I would think (and hope) that a player can immediately start trading techs and EC's back and forth with his 2 Factions. FYI.


D

	20-04-2004 07:33									#18
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cool, thanks a lot-


yeah it doesn't really bother me i just wanted to choose my faction..

so i want Zak & Yang- which i think googlie is doing anyway..

if we have a large map - please have PLENTY of water...
i think that too much land is suffercating.

i am relatively new to pbem but have played IP for a few years now.. so i will have lots of question-i hope this is not annoying for u....


--- what does setting stockpile energy credits in build que do??

are we allowed to treaty with each other??

ie. the humans??

... please make it that the alien, or whicheve AI it happens to be does not start on one of our continents and not another. It is a big disadvantage to have an aggressor next to u, and not next to someone else. *for obvious reasons.*

	20-04-2004 07:38									#19
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another thing, will supply pods be included?? -- sometimes i feel that just resource bonuses are better.. in most cases at least more fair...

and another question - what will the affect of probe cruisers inthe game be?? For the AI i mean.. do they subvert form the coast and ****??

	20-04-2004 15:22									#20
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quote: Originally posted by ChairmanSlick another thing, will supply pods be included?? -- sometimes i feel that just resource bonuses are better.. in most cases at least more fair... and another question - what will the affect of probe cruisers inthe game be?? For the AI i mean.. do they subvert form the coast and ****??

Supply Pods are a normal part of any PBEM. And yes, Probe Cruisers can subvert coastline bases (which of course means the Pirates have the most to worry about in this case).


D

	20-04-2004 23:11									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sorry for the delay - my new cable internet service got splotchy there for a day or 2 (as in NOT)

Some thoughts from past 2 x 3's i've set up that seemed to work:

Any AI would be equidistant from all 3 players - equally accessable to all and equally threatening to all (might "want to talk" to one of your 2 factions and "an atrocity victim" of the other??)

The other games I've set up have requred a player wanting to move a unit (say a former, or rover) to his other faction to pass through another players territory (those were in pre-pirate days, which kind of subvert that concept, so maybe I won't apply it this time)

In other 3 x 2's no-one liked sequential turns. A player could, for example, snatch the CA and build nothing but choppers in one faction, and with the other snag the CN and CF and churn out high morale drop defenders. You open a turn to find ten bases chopped and dropped and you couldn't do a thing about it (like rushing defenders to an empty base, etc) It just seemed to give far too much power to the momentum combos

But I'll go with the majority decision on this one

If there is an alien AI. I'd propose moving gas way down the tech tree - maybe to "Secrets of the Manifolds" - otherwise it's just a pushover

I suggest disabling the EG - I think concensus now is that in PBEMs it too overpowering an SP - certainly my most enjoyable games are where one has to probe rather than just snag the EG. With just 3 players - and an ineligble alien AI I'd suggest disabling Council as well (no Governor and automatic infiltration for him - and human players always seem to ignore the sanctions anyway - obviously you can't ignore the economic in-game sanctions for atrocities, but mostly automatic vendetta by everyone upon PBing an enemy just don't happen in human-controlled games)

A large map with 50% to 70% water would resemble earth, as well as the default Map of Planet

G.

	21-04-2004 03:34									#22
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Sounds good. I'm a big fan of sequencial turns, otherwise this game'll act like a six player, which would be less than optimal fun. And in fairness, we all have that same advantage as each other.

Agreed with the nerve gas move. Secrets of the Manifolds may be too far... perhaps Bioengineering?

Also agreed about the EG. I'd rather not disable the counsel, just have a house rule that no governorship can be had (If everyone agrees, I'm happy with that rule.) Then infiltration must be earned the hard way

Large map, 50-70% water? I'd prefer as close to 50% as possible please, with the pirates on board. Otherwise there's way too much of an advantage for them there.

C

	21-04-2004 04:01									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie If there is an alien AI. I'd propose moving gas way down the tech tree - maybe to "Secrets of the Manifolds" - otherwise it's just a pushover

.

I don't think the #ABILITIES section of the alphax.txt file is imprinted onto a game, meaning it wouldn't be moved from its original position. If I'm not mistaken, the only section that is imprinted onto a game is the #UNITS section. What we can do is just simply agree not to use gas on the alien AI (on each other, well, thats just a different matter (cough - Chaunk - cough)).

Getting rid of the Empath Guild is fine by me - I plan on having everyone infiltrated by MY 2137 anyways, so its really to my advantage.....

I would like sequential turns, simply to make the game go quicker. Not stuck on this, though.

Oh yeah,

quote: Large map, 50-70% water? I'd prefer as close to 50% as possible please, with the pirates on board.

Do I hear someone lining up their excuses already?

Finally, we're gonna need a name for this turkey. Maybe "CGN 6, Part Deaux", or perhaps "Unfinished Business"?


D

	21-04-2004 04:12									#24
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Unfinished business please, although the irony of CGN 6, Part Deaux on poly should escape no one Let's let Mr Slick decide.

With regard to your infiltration by 2137, I plan on having probe defenses up and running by 2127, so you'd better be infiltrating me first

C

	21-04-2004 04:57									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Chaunk Large map, 50-70% water? I'd prefer as close to 50% as possible please, with the pirates on board. Otherwise there's way too much of an advantage for them there.

My maps tend to err on the more land side of the % anyway (as I tweak the maps, add island strings and swamps, etc etc)

So I'd expect it to be closer to the 50% than the 70%

G.

	21-04-2004 20:19									#26
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man, pbem seems like such a strange world to me...

but really; getting rid of EG etc. really does seem sensible, if not a lil strange...


= )

map sounds great!

thanks a lot googlie u seem like ur putitng in some hard yards -- and sequential turns is what i was presuming.. i think the fact that u would have to send and recieve twice for one turn to be completed seems farkin dumb.

so lets get started... i feel kinda please i'm on the outskirts of a personal vendetta between u two --- meanwhile i'll just lap up the techs... muhahahaha


o what ..more techs---- thanks you--


o what.. theres still fighting...

o what... i win... gee that was good!

	21-04-2004 20:21									#27
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--- o, and i don't care bout name but if u want me to pick i choose : "unfinished business"

	21-04-2004 21:20									#28
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Well, yeah in CGN 6 there was some "unfinished business" between me and D, but in CGN10, we won (or at least he & my replacement KK did.) So you could experience fighting and/or collaborating in the game...

My money's on fighting though

C

	24-04-2004 05:53									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk Well, yeah in CGN 6 there was some "unfinished business" between me and D, but in CGN10, we won (or at least he & my replacement KK did.) So you could experience fighting and/or collaborating in the game... My money's on fighting though C

So to cut to the chase, why I think what Chaunk is trying to say is it probably wouldn't be a good thing to get caught between us, as if you are then either your gonna end up being a speed bump for both of us, or else a lesson in anatomical dissection.....

My Gaian empathic sense tells me Googlie is almost complete with his playtesting, and we will shortly be bound for Planetfall. Hope you all payed Googlie some EC's for a sweet landing spot, like I did!

D