15-04-2004 20:03									#31
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Hey, it would even be cool if the Angels tried to hack the private forums... -Jam

Not that much roleplay Jam.

	15-04-2004 20:13									#32
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Obviously teams still need gameplay experts and I'm sure any team would be glad to have you. Others in your team who enjoy the roleplaying aspect would do your team's roleplaying. Then everyone is happy.

	15-04-2004 20:19									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Exactly, Gaians for instance have an opening, and we have excess roleplayers.

	15-04-2004 20:27									#34
	Suffering from ads?

I think there will be people roleplaying a lot, some or not at all. Making it mandatory wouldn't work IMHO and even might scare people off.

	15-04-2004 20:28									#35
	Put an end to popups!

It's not much fun to focus on gameplay if roleplaying affects gameplay decisions, such as which SE settings to use or which factions to ally with.

	15-04-2004 20:29									#36
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yes, but this polls speaks about TEAMS, not individual members.

	15-04-2004 20:30									#37
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Minute Mirage It's not much fun to focus on gameplay if roleplaying affects gameplay decisions, such as which SE settings to use or which factions to ally with.

I think no faction will actually subordinate itself to that. Look just at this ACDG - Hive and Drones aligned - that wouldn`t be quite roleplaying correct, right?

	15-04-2004 20:33									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think it would be cool if for example political systems were roleplayed:
- Police state will have its dictator and players would be advisors with some power defined
- Democracy would have regular elections
- Fundamentalism would have a leader which would have to keep the ideology.

	15-04-2004 20:35									#39
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 I think it would be cool if for example political systems were roleplayed: - Police state will have its dictator and players would be advisors with some power defined - Democracy would have regular elections

Mart, this two are currently now roleplayed.

* Illuminatus looks at CyCon and Hive

	15-04-2004 20:37									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by obstructor I think no faction will actually subordinate itself to that.

I'd hope so, but Jamski's post gives me reason to think otherwise.

	15-04-2004 20:37									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just because roleplaying would be mandatory for teams does not mean it would need to be taken to the extreme, nor would it mean that the entire games purpose would be to roleplay. Nor even would it necessarily have to affect gameplay - with enough creativity you could justify any SE setting with any faction.

quote: I'd hope so, but Jamski's post gives me reason to think otherwise.

Again, the gameplay colours the roleplaying, not the other way around. The roleplaying justifies the decisions your team makes. Well, thats how I hope it will work for my team anyway.

How the roleplaying takes place is entirely up to the team in question, just so long as they do some roleplaying.

	15-04-2004 20:43									#42
	Remove this text

The best way to assure that each team Role Plays will be for roleplaying intense players to spread themselves EVENLY amungst the teams and not dog pile one faction as happened to an extent in this game.

I also think we need to distinquish a few things here.

Diplomacy/StateCraft is negotiation with and dealing diplomaticly with other factions and is a desirable thing to have (creating positions for influential diplomates for one) but is not the same as Role Playing though you can Role Play when doing it.

RolePlaying occures mostly in the form of periodicals such as Pravda, the Digital Data Download and the Shipping News that were released durring this game. They usaly serve to recap major developments that have already transpired.

I strongly favor that we do a lot of each of these this next game.

	15-04-2004 20:43									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What I think of is that when in-game you change demo to police state, you have to change playing government too. Is that what you mean?

	15-04-2004 20:47									#44
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 What I think of is that when in-game you change demo to police state, you have to change playing government too. Is that what you mean?

This has never happened yet, but it will be interesting to see.

* Illuminatus looks at Spartans

	15-04-2004 20:49									#45
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yup, so for example when a police state dictator wishes to change police state to democracy he/she must run the elections

	15-04-2004 20:53									#46
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

That should be up to individual factions to decide if they want.

	15-04-2004 20:53									#47
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

But what with frontier societies - should then faction be ruled by faction autocrat?

	15-04-2004 20:56									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns That should be up to individual factions to decide if they want.

And that will be convenient for factions maybe, but will in no way represent politics choices. What democracy will it be when still ruled by a dictator. This will reduce political social engineering to merely set of mathematical factors

	15-04-2004 21:00									#49
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Mart, I completely agree with you. SE should affect gameplay on that manor, but not vice versa. What will happen when Morgan starts running Fundy, I wonder

	15-04-2004 21:47									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The team as a whole roleplaying should be okay. The computer teams do after all. Certianly individuals shouldn't be forced to. I know at the moment I wouldn't want to, but perhaps if everyone else had chosen to, then I would change my mind.

Last edited by Dansz on 15-04-2004 at 22:46

	15-04-2004 23:18									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well there are some basic "roleplay" rules - or conventions - that i think should be honoured:

If Morgan - or anyone else - runs FM, then the Gaians should not pact with them (it's their aversion, after all). Whewther it's enough to cause the G's to declare vendetta should give some room for in-faction internal roleplaying for those so inclined.

Similarly with Morgan and anyone running their aversion - planned. And Sparta with wealth running factions.

Of course no-one runs Power (although Sparta should, as it's their value), so the Angels should have no trouble getting along with everyone

That I would classify as "macro roleplaying". and perhaps should be mandatory for teams. How much individual in-forum and out-of-forum micro-roleplaying gets done should be up to individual preference.

And in defense of he who shall not be named he did, after all, say at the beginning that he'd not be roleplaying, but was entering this current game as a mentor, to raise smac/x skill levels for some team members in his forums.

G.

	15-04-2004 23:22									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Googlie And Sparta with wealth running factions.

Then you're basically forcing Sparta to be hostile to everyone. About everyone runs Wealth most of the time in my experience.
If Spartans go with the mercenary idea, one could also argue that they should be friends with everyone that runs Wealth: Spartans would look down on those factions, but they would offer "those weaklings" their military protection in exchange for a price.

quote: Of course no-one runs Power (although Sparta should, as it's their value),

Power's penalty - -2 Industry - is way too large IMO. A reason almost no one - or at least I never do - uses this SE setting until they have the Cloning Vats. Personally I'd argue to reduce the Power SE penalty to -1 Industry. That way it could actually be a profitable SE setting for all factions from time to time.

	15-04-2004 23:24									#53
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I wouldn't necessarily force teams to play their 'designed' SE settings. If Morgans for instance see fit to run green for a while (eg. most bases in the middle of a fungal wood), then they should be able to do so.

	15-04-2004 23:34									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

All of this ofcorse stems from the fact that the SE settings are poorly balanced and usaly encourage a Faction to take the option least in line with their ideology (like Morgan running Green rather then FM).

I ofcorse been tweeking and modifying the SE in my new Mod but their continues to be great resistence to incorporating any Alpha text changes in this game which I find very disapointing

	15-04-2004 23:41									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Well there are some basic "roleplay" rules - or conventions - that i think should be honoured: If Morgan - or anyone else - runs FM, then the Gaians should not pact with them (it's their aversion, after all). Whewther it's enough to cause the G's to declare vendetta should give some room for in-faction internal roleplaying for those so inclined. Similarly with Morgan and anyone running their aversion - planned. And Sparta with wealth running factions. Of course no-one runs Power (although Sparta should, as it's their value), so the Angels should have no trouble getting along with everyone That I would classify as "macro roleplaying". and perhaps should be mandatory for teams. How much individual in-forum and out-of-forum micro-roleplaying gets done should be up to individual preference. And in defense of he who shall not be named he did, after all, say at the beginning that he'd not be roleplaying, but was entering this current game as a mentor, to raise smac/x skill levels for some team members in his forums. G.

I am against that. I think gameplay should dictate roleplay, and not vice versa. This would force wars from the start, and we would exactly know what will happen and who will war agaisnt whom. Basicall Gaians are codemned to isolation, and Spartans to attacking everybody.
Cannot Gaians be pacted with faction running FM, i hope to change their viewpoint, or while they are not significantly damging environment? Couldn`t Spartans tolerate others Wealth values while trying to perusade them that power is the best choice?

	16-04-2004 00:22									#56
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It is a fact that the Drones team in this ACDG has not roleplayed to a large amount. It is a pre-accepted agreement. There is no need to point fingers using some ill-intended names, nor to avoid the fact like it is a taboo.

On the contrary, we can simply pre agree that there should not be any team that does not participating the roleplay in this game. It is this simple.

My understanding of roleplaying is that the teams interact with each other and among themselves in character. How each team roleplays should not be strictly defined. A team could decide to choose the SE settings and make other in game decisions according to the original ideology of the faction. However, it should not be forbidden that the Spartans realizes the importance of wealth and go through a reform.

Also, how a team roleplays inside the team should not be restricted also. For example the Hive is supposed to be a police state, however, it is still good roleplays when the Hive pursues "democratic centralism" and actually have elections. And the fact that Hive and Drones pact together should not be viewed as impossible either, as long as they can find common ground such as the glory of the workers.

Individual players should not be required to roleplay. There are different people with different preference. People who excel in game playing should be allowed to concentrate in gaming strategy. A faction's roleplay can affect in game decisions, but no team should be required to do so.

The last point I would like to say, is that I would like people to try differentiate RL attitude from roleplaying. Members of two teams could engage in heated discussions or debates, some times may even be hostile interactions, these should be strictly in roleplay sense. Like Hive can accuse the CCs of murders and CCs can counterstrike the Hive with the same thing. But nobody should take it one step further and throw irresponsible personal attacks. If somebody has a RL issue against somebody, the issue should be raised with the moderator, and may further be raised with the entire forum, however discussion regarding this kind of things needs to be calm, fair and objective. Some times it is hard to differentiate the two, but we should all try. And we should all remember, we come here for fun. Nobody come here with ill intentions. We should all try to be more tolerant and more open, and we should all try to understand each other.

	16-04-2004 01:38									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Role play:

Demanded? No.
Done? Yes, probably!

For example, as a future Morganite, I will indeed get annoyed at factions running Planned, and encourage them to switch to FM (Especially Gaians ).

Although I don't think we should enforce team roleplaying (this is a demo game after all, not a role playing game), it should be encouraged. We don't need a set of rules, but perhaps some self policing would be good (Along the lines of Maniac's incessant "Why did you reload?" cries last game perhaps? That is, "Morgans, why are you running green not free market?", to which the responce might be "The drones are driving me mad!" or "Profits my dear!" or "Check your PM box!" or whatever.) It would certainly add an extra dimension to the game methinks!

Hmm, waffled more than I wanted to there.

Summary
Roleplay good! Enforced roleplay bad.

Chaunk

	16-04-2004 02:59									#58
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Chaunk Along the lines of Maniac's incessant "Why did you reload?" cries last game perhaps?

	16-04-2004 16:26									#59
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

i think most of the peiople that are going to play the 3rd ACDG (the police game thingy doesnt count because i didnt join that one )will want to roleplay but do not make it a rule....that is SOOO hive like...

	16-04-2004 19:30									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well we better make it clear what we really want then. This way nobody would be soooo inclined to whine about certain people's non roleplaying as this goes along.