16-04-2004 06:56									#1
	Land transport/air probe Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Transport "ability" subtracts one movement point from chasis. Thus Transport Speeder has only 1 movement point. We cannot have then APC on speeder chasis fast like 2 units per turn then. Is there any remedy for that? Do we need hoovertank to make better speeds with infantry transports?

I seem to be unsuccesful in creating air probe needlejet. No U2 in SMAX?

	16-04-2004 07:37									#2
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Hmm...could you make a hovertank transport custom unit in the alpha.txt file and set it's requirement to Docterine: Mobility?

	16-04-2004 08:06									#3
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That is a possibility. But how about "old-style" troop transporter on wheels, which would be faster than marching soldiers? this is what i miss here

	16-04-2004 08:56									#4
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An elite-level transport will have 2 movement points.

	16-04-2004 09:27									#5
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An infantry or a speeder transport?

	16-04-2004 10:53									#6
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Presumably Skanky means an elite speeder transport (although it is a bit difficult to get one to be elite, as they don't get monolith upgrades and I t don'tthink that they can be given the 'trained' attribute).

Aircraft probes can be made with a little judicious messing around with the Alpha(x).txt file. IIRC, there were some strange rules in using them, like your a/c probe needed to start its turn in a sea tile to be able to probe a sea base (and land for land). Aircraft probes seem way too powerful, but perhaps if they were available, we would develop a standard strategy to counter them (like lots of probe defenders and interceptors - if they work against probeplanes, or maybe probeinterceptorplanes if you had NG). It probably doesn't hurt to give the AI some probeplanes though (and you don't have to enable human-player use of them to be able to predesign some probe aircraft with the appropriate stuff enabled right in their unit definition to give to the AI players.

	16-04-2004 11:37									#7
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You can always make a custom made rover transport with the grav stuts ability flagged, and put it in the basic units list. That gives you 2 moves for sure then.

	16-04-2004 14:02									#8
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In order to get more movement from my land transports I have built them as prototypes for all of my new armor types. With all of the boni for facilities they just squeek into the elite category. As they have no weapon they can't be trained, nor can they upgrade at a monolith.

	16-04-2004 18:56									#9
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller Presumably Skanky means an elite speeder transport (although it is a bit difficult to get one to be elite, as they don't get monolith upgrades and I t don'tthink that they can be given the 'trained' attribute).

Infantry chassis elite transports yield two movement point.

Speeder chassis elite transports similarly yield two movement points.

There is no good compelling reason to put a transport onto a speeder chassis as all it does is add cost with no discernible performance difference. (Although I do wonder if a speeder chassis elite transport would retreat in the open)

The points regarding upgrade are important to note just as Sik et. al. suggestions to proto new armors to get the elite rating. In the late midgame, Santi should be producing elites in bases with command centers and bioenhancement centers. Like wise other factions can achieve the same by running Fundy/?/Knowledge or simply ?/?/power assuming they are not Gaians with a morale penalty.

	16-04-2004 19:28									#10
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Do prototypes get a morale boost then?

Last edited by Dansz on 16-04-2004 at 20:22

	16-04-2004 20:38									#11
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Yep. 1 morale level boost.

	17-04-2004 01:09									#12
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Didn't know transports got movement penalties. Really, though, why make a speeder transport?

	17-04-2004 01:26									#13
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To move infantry units directly to the gates of an enemy base so it's movement is not lost in that same turn. And if you have a transport with two movements (elite or grav struts, whatever) it can come as a complete surprise from outside the base view.

	17-04-2004 14:11									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Commy Didn't know transports got movement penalties. Really, though, why make a speeder transport?

There is no reason whatever to build a speeder transport. They will have the same movement as an infantry based equivalent in all circumstances.

	17-04-2004 15:08									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns An elite-level transport will have 2 movement points.

Skanky, I tried to make an elite transport in scenario editor and it defaulted always to Commando. I was never able to see those 2 movement poits. How to do it? How to boost morale of a transport unit? let mindworms bite it ???

	17-04-2004 16:21									#16
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Not that I have tried it, but perhaps with enough morale+ modifiers using SE the transport can be made elite. I haven't used the scenario editor at all, so no ideas there.

	17-04-2004 16:23									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander There is no reason whatever to build a speeder transport. They will have the same movement as an infantry based equivalent in all circumstances.

What about for the prototype morale bonus?

	17-04-2004 20:07									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Not that I have tried it, but perhaps with enough morale+ modifiers using SE the transport can be made elite. I haven't used the scenario editor at all, so no ideas there.

quote: The points regarding upgrade are important to note just as Sik et. al. suggestions to proto new armors to get the elite rating. In the late midgame, Santi should be producing elites in bases with command centers and bioenhancement centers. Like wise other factions can achieve the same by running Fundy/?/Knowledge or simply ?/?/power assuming they are not Gaians with a morale penalty.

	18-04-2004 16:42									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Patashu What about for the prototype morale bonus?

1 (infantry chassis) - 1 (transport module) = 1 (minimum movement rate) + 1 (elite) = 2

2 (rover chassis) - 1 (transport module) = 1 (minimum movement rate) +1 (elite) =2

As a unit cannot ever have a movement less than 1 the infantry chassis manages to be the only one that doesn't lose anything by adding a transport module due to the order of the equation, as elite status is added last.

The prototype morale bonus (in conjunction with several others) will allow most factions to produce elite transports. The Spartans don't need the prototype bonus to do this, while the Gaians must run Power in addition. One might as well produce the cheaper infantry version vs the more expensive rover type until the hovertank chassis becomes available.

	18-04-2004 21:17									#20
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Ah, guys, lets think about it. Why waste time building a transport unit when you could just build two speeder units. Yeah, infantry get attack bonuses on bases, and are relatively cheaper, but really, all the AI has to do is attack the transport. By the time you build the speeder transport, you could have like two recon rovers or something instead.

	19-04-2004 14:37									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Commy Ah, guys, lets think about it. Why waste time building a transport unit when you could just build two speeder units. Yeah, infantry get attack bonuses on bases, and are relatively cheaper, but really, all the AI has to do is attack the transport. By the time you build the speeder transport, you could have like two recon rovers or something instead.

I use drop transports to move units which are too complicated or too expensive to give the Drop attribute to individually. For instance Clean - Super formers moving from my home continent to an enemy continent which I am attacking in order to build roads or mag tubes etc.

	19-04-2004 18:49									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Commy Ah, guys, lets think about it. Why waste time building a transport unit when you could just build two speeder units. Yeah, infantry get attack bonuses on bases, and are relatively cheaper, but really, all the AI has to do is attack the transport. By the time you build the speeder transport, you could have like two recon rovers or something instead.

Its rather simple.

In terms of mins.

Say you are considering an impact weapn era.

You can have three units (2 x 4-1-1 and an infantry transport NEVER a speeder transport) all at 2 rows of mins each comparably speaking verses 2 units at 3 rows of mins each (2 x 4-1-2).

Now youare going to pay an additioanl min ins supprt costs but have gone through 3 build cycles so you have an extra stockpile energy to your credit. In my mind relatively a wash.

In terms of actual usage.

If you are attacking along a road, against a base take an impact rover case. You move into poistion say expending 1/3 or 2/3 movement points. You attack win but are damage to the point where you no longer have any moves left. You can not retreat. You instead are open to counter attack.

Same case now with a 4-1-1. You load up the 4-1-1 into the tranpsort move 1/3 or 2/3 movement points along the road. Attack (at a 25% attack bouns of infantry vs. base btw) and win taking much less damge due to the 25% attack bonus. If said 4-1-1 is not elite its movemnt is expended. BUT you reactivate the unit hit "L" and then activate the transport and remove it from fray and thus moving it to safety away from counter attack.

One other point, Now you have a slightly damage 4-1-1 that requires some healing. Next turn (turn 1), You can transport it to the nearest base and then hit the space bar for an immediate heal. Contrast that, If you didn't have the transport you would have to move the unit to the base by itselef (turn 1) and then hit space on turn 2 in order to begin the healing process.

In terms of mins teh optimal advantage swings to transports around missile tech. 6-1-1's still run you 2 rows of mins whilst 6-1-2 run 4 rows of mins IIRC.
During this era you can force build much quicker using transports and infantry grunts than you can speeders.

I've written on this subject a number of times. Land trasnports have functionality in any game phase. 'Prolly least effecitve during D:AP but pick up effectivity (again) with discovery of MMI as a niche unit once they are made drop capable.

	19-04-2004 19:11									#23
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So I take it you drop them with a unit loaded then?
Nice tactic
No attack penalty for a dropped infantry attacker, and no 20% damage because of the attack.

	19-04-2004 19:26									#24
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder So I take it you drop them with a unit loaded then? Nice tactic No attack penalty for a dropped infantry attacker, and no 20% damage because of the attack.

Nope not quite. Transported units end up being stalled for a turn.

No realisticallly I use them in order to aquire far flung pods. I take either a colony pod or a former and drop to a non touched continent with pods. The intent is to hopefully get an Alien Artifact. The colony pod either sets up a new base or the former creates an air base. Either of whcih are required in order to create a return ticket for the transport with AA in tow hopefully.