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Antrine
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Well I think some of those flags are important of course, however I have found that the AI converting Leaders to
Armies is one issue, separate from the AI's routines of using well, said Armies. Once the AI has Armies available and good offensive units to stuff them with and you are attacking, I find it uses said Army well. Or it may start a war with multiple Armies readied and attack first, having them well escorted and supported by other units. So yes, the coded AI routines for Army use is solid.
So the quandary is 'getting there' given the present condition of C3C.
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Antrine
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Since there is no stacked combat in C3C, when well stuffed Armies show up on the battlefield, it changes things. It grabs your attention, adds feeling and depth, requires your attending, swings the battle and makes every city in the vincinity suspect maybe even a target. When the AI uses Armies it supports them and they are harder to take out.
Why then even if things did work as sold, why so few? Random generation of a few Armies not much fun, especially in first and second Ages. For the Vanilla version I would advocate a little more flavor, even after tweaking what is now there to work.
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smellymummy
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that kind of stuff is compiled into the main program. so it's unlikely a fan will be able to fix it
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MattPilot
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Tulsa, OK
Dec 2003
time: 05:35
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yes thank you - its been pointed out.
If the AI were to have a military academy, would it be smart enough to build armies or would it consider them useless and not build them at all?
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Antrine
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In the AI's scheme of priority, why would it build a single Army unit on cost basis of a whopping 400 when most major Wonders cost less and they are certainly 'high' on the priority list! Reduce the AI's list of priorities. Make the costs (ie. Army) comparable to practical use, for you can easily build 10 or even 20 other units that could long ago carry out some useful objective before the Army hits the field. Is the AI stupid not to build a 400 shield Army (and this after building the Wonder for the privilage of same), plus, have built from other cities three or four prime offensive units and move them to the Army city? I think I would be stupid to carry forward such.
Armies just are not that valuable. I know, my (highly modded)games are full of them, filled with all kinds of combinations of units and there are plenty of ways to confound and defeat them. Twenty units put out early and fast is much more advantageous.
The entry fee is too high and competes with other objectives.
The build fee is rediculously high.
The logistics is completely cumbersome.
Gee, the so-called stupid AI does not under these lousy conditions 'build Armies, I wonder...
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smellymummy
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with governor on, armies don't get built that often. i imagine the AI follows that same type of logic in building decisions
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Rusty Nail
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Copenhagen
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
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In my mod, the only way to produce armies is automatically by the Military Academy every 15 turns. This way you make sure that the AI has some. It definitely improves gameplay.
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MattPilot
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Tulsa, OK
Dec 2003
time: 05:35
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Good idea - so does the Academy automatically stop producing them when the limit (1 per 4 cities) is reached or does it continue to produce them?
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Antrine
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Well, Theseus did you actually mean you 'agree' with me? 
Considering all my other posts on the AI Army subject. That the AI Army is 'completely broke' now, however most of which is all modable. But with sublime deference to the 'champions of Vanilla' it is certainly 'non-functional' as is, in it's current state.
Additionally and I am now B r a g i n g, in my Mod, yes I do get concerned about AI Armies and that on a regular basis. Every game several times each. But then, I am certain that once various and sundry conditions are carefully 'set-up' for the AI, they use Armies well. I have plenty of pictures to support it. My favorite is when two offensively packed Armies stacked with three each defensive units come up pre-emptively against a single city.
The AI routines for Army use are fine, once several of them are about, with underlying conditions met. And they will attack a 'winged enemy Army'. I carelessly lose Armies because I tend to fling them about, the AI is more prudent and stacks them forward and back again.
'Mod like hell, it is next best thing to intelligence, trust me, we are desperate to make this thing work, it still is the closest to the target yet. However, hope abounds that someone, somewhere is working on the 'Great Big Universal Game Editor in the Sky'. And who says this is a dream? 
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Rusty Nail
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Copenhagen
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
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MattPilot:
I believe the production of armies stops when you reach the limit. I seem to recell experiencing that, but I am not 100% sure.
Antrine:
Interesting idea to use Palace for producing armies. My experience is that the AI usually builds the military academy, but my sample size is admittedly small. I make it cheaper so it is easier to build. Also, the AI does often fill it up with the wrong units, unfortunately.
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Rusty Nail
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Copenhagen
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
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Antrine:
In my current mod the military academy becomes available in the usual place, military tradition, and can be built anywhere. Do you have good reasons to do otherwise?
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Antrine
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Hi Rusty Nail!
The key component of the Military Academy is ‘building Armies without a Leader’ flag. By my way of thinking, when you also use a Small Wonder or any improvement to ‘spit’ out a unit every so many turns, one arranges timing.
With Armies, a long lead-time is needful. They must be stuffed and or moved generally to the capitol and/or other units moved to them. This coordination can take many turns. With that, their AI use is further complicated as they often ‘stack’ fast moving defensive units (if available) with said Armies. The AI does not send Armies out alone so far that I have seen. Moreover, I have seen many dozens in various settings.
If your objective to have more Napoleon like field engagements etc, throughout the game or even early with Ancient units then this trigger, ‘building Armies without a Leader’ flag needs be available early on. Additionally I have it set, in three or four Small Wonders, so no matter, character of AI or whatever branch of the tech tree they climb, that opportunity it readily there.
At this time, I also have four different types of Army units. Each with a varied set of characteristics:
First, the Normal Vanilla Army; renamed Imperial Army retaining all Vanilla game settings.
Second, an Ancient Army, cheaper available early (second tier on tech tree) loads only two units, no radar (which translates to a 25% battle bonus). Easy build, easy die, expendable if you will.
Third, a Siege Army made with a Trebuchet and loads only one, again no radar, available early different limb of the tech tree, the special characteristic being it bombards at 6, rounds 1, rate 3. It will routinely damage two hit points per turn on target land or sea.
Fourthly, a Multi-unit of warriors, this is great for looks. Loads one, no radar however it’s claim to fame is that it is amphibious. Can load on the two earliest ships for to have ancient sea battle replete with invasions, I bill it as an early version of the berserker that comes later. This comes very early as well.
Now I employ three methods to insure AI use of Armies.
Common and easily built improvements spit them out.
Two, there are available units to stuff them always nearby, this done again by common improvements spitting them out and by having every single unit with the ‘enslave unit’ trigger functional. This pulls units in randomly all the time. I like gladiators, however utilize a whole range of units all enslaved. For this is the main way this class of units comes into the game.
Third and I believe least effective though commonly relied upon by modders or players. Have the AI build them. No matter how cheap, this for the AI is not so reliable and conversely it is very reliable to humans. Therefore, you cannot make them to cheap or easily available by simple building for the humans will drive a Mack Truck on through this hole soon having excessively many Armies! Therefore, it is better to regulate their introduction into the game flow via improvements and remaining a little expensive. Also nice, that with this, ‘no Leader trigger’ on a Wonder, the Armies can only be built in the city that host those Wonders.
Often, what keeps the human player in check hampers the AI, a definite game designer’s quandary.
Happy Gaming!
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MattPilot
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Tulsa, OK
Dec 2003
time: 05:35
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i just tried it out - when letting improvements build armies automatically, it doesn't stop when the limit is reached.
just a FYI
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16-04-2004 22:54
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