17-04-2004 02:31									#1
	Do you get all the early SPs? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

....on Thinker or Transend level.

If not, which ones does the AI usually get?

	17-04-2004 02:38									#2
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The AI gets the ones I let it get, like the merchant exchange or the planetary datalinks. Sometimes it gets the command nexus, because I never bother researching the tech for it.

	17-04-2004 03:25									#3
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The AI often gets a good few of the early SPs-- I don't care about the Command Nexus for instance --- Or with a booming faction and good drone control I may not prioritize the PTS Its only around the time of the CBA and Cyborg factory that I want to get ALL of the SPs.

	17-04-2004 03:29									#4
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The AI sometimes gets the Planetary Datalinks or the Xenoempathy dome.

Otherwise I take them all, and I like it that way.

-Jam

	17-04-2004 03:36									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Method The AI gets the ones I let it get, like the merchant exchange or the planetary datalinks. Sometimes it gets the command nexus, because I never bother researching the tech for it.

You let it get the Merchant Exchange??

That's the one I always do my best to get! The rest are ... expendable. Most I can get by without, but the ME is indispencable in my SSB:

	17-04-2004 03:43									#6
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quote: Originally posted by bondetamp You let it get the Merchant Exchange?? That's the one I always do my best to get! The rest are ... expendable. Most I can get by without, but the ME is indispencable in my SSB:

I have to agree with you somewhat. The ME is underrated. Once you have a energy park, that is an extra energy per crawler/trawler.
Though it is not on the level of the WP, HGP, VW, etc.

And as usual, the ME in the AI's hands is worthless.

	17-04-2004 04:01									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Weather Paradigm > Merchant Exchange
Human Genome Project > Merchant Exchange
Virtual World > Merchant Exchange
Planetary Energy Grid > Merchant Exchange
Planetary Transit System > Merchant Exchange (perhaps somewhat questionable)
Citizen's Defence Force > Merchant Exchange

:. * > Merchant Exchange

	17-04-2004 04:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Method * > Merchant Exchange

Would a ME that produced 2 extra energy make it worth fighting for?

	17-04-2004 04:25									#9
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It might. But most of the above still apply, I'd think. It _is_ more useful than, say the Planetary Datalinks or the Bulk Matter Transmitter, so * > Merchant Exchange isn't exactly true, but meh.

	17-04-2004 04:46									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Method Weather Paradigm > Merchant Exchange Human Genome Project > Merchant Exchange Virtual World > Merchant Exchange Planetary Energy Grid > Merchant Exchange Planetary Transit System > Merchant Exchange (perhaps somewhat questionable) Citizen's Defence Force > Merchant Exchange :. * > Merchant Exchange

I disagree completely in a single player game.



Well, maybe not entirely. In the olden days, when I wanted nothing more than spend five weeks playing a single game, and therefor had 100-200 bases, the SPs with nation wide benefits would skyrocket in usefulness.

These days, I generally play a perfectionist game with 5-10 bases with a central port base being my designated SSB. In those games I would say that

ME > WP (I can always build a few extra formers, and it is generally no problem to keep ahead of base growth anyhow.)
ME > HGP (That one talent can be very useful, but hardly vital.)
ME >=< VW (This is a close one, as free Hologram Theatres means massive savings!)
ME > PEG (I generally have Energy Banks in all bases by the time this tech is researched)
ME > PTS (By the time I get Ind. Aut. I have all the bases I want. I try to get it anyway, though, as an enemy, or even worse, an ally, can be a pain in the ass with this SP)
ME > CDF (Again, playing a perfectionist's game, all my bases have walls by the time the tech becomes available.)

:. ME, VW > *

	17-04-2004 05:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by bondetamp ME > WP (I can always build a few extra formers, and it is generally no problem to keep ahead of base growth anyhow.)

Whatever floats your proverbial boat, I guess.

quote: ME > HGP (That one talent can be very useful, but hardly vital.)

One talent in every base, or +1 energy/sq in one base? Eihn, same thing as above I guess.

quote: ME >=< VW (This is a close one, as free Hologram Theatres means massive savings!)

VW > ME.

quote: ME > PEG (I generally have Energy Banks in all bases by the time this tech is researched)

At least deny it from the AI and sell off your already-build banks.

quote: ME > PTS (By the time I get Ind. Aut. I have all the bases I want. I try to get it anyway, though, as an enemy, or even worse, an ally, can be a pain in the ass with this SP)

Agreed, and I usually have done all the expanding I want to do by this point as well, but instant size-3 bases with no drones is nice to have, though certainly not vital by any means.

quote: ME > CDF (Again, playing a perfectionist's game, all my bases have walls by the time the tech becomes available.)

same as the PEG. At least deny it from the AI and sell.

	17-04-2004 06:59									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Playing as the Believers-The AI gets everyone.

Playing as the Hive-The AI gets maybe one or two that I don't built.

	17-04-2004 07:23									#13
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In SP on transcend, I'd get all bar the CN (although I could get that too if I aimed for it more). Literally all. Theres no point in giving the AI any projects. On any level lower than transcend, the ai can't start a project until you have the tech (I think. I'm fairly certain this is the case, but haven't done extensive testing since I always play on transcend), and so I'd get every project.

quote: Originally posted by Method quote: ME > PTS (By the time I get Ind. Aut. I have all the bases I want. I try to get it anyway, though, as an enemy, or even worse, an ally, can be a pain in the ass with this SP) Agreed, and I usually have done all the expanding I want to do by this point as well, but instant size-3 bases with no drones is nice to have, though certainly not vital by any means.

Eek! If there was one SP that would be always always ALWAYS better than the ME, its the PTS! I don't usually ICS that much (or at all, depending), but this one is always a demanded in SP, since it works out at probably 1.5-2x more pop, instantly. bee-line to ind auto, and it's easily built by 2135 even on a huge map, and I defy anyone to have finished expanding by then.

The ME is a great project in it's own right though, especially in SMAX, where you can do trawler parks. ME + free market + thermal transducer + lots of trawlers on sea solar collecters = 6 energy squares at virtually no terraforming cost. Makes for an awesome SSC or second SSC. If it gave +2 energy per square then it'd be worth killing people for, even allies. ME

C

	17-04-2004 10:07									#14
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Part of the problem is that the ME gives almost no benefit until energy restrictions are lifted, for any faction at +2 econ with forests everywhere. It pays for itself only after a substantial delay, whereas the PTS pays for itself immediately and others like the WP at least start paying off immediately. If the ME were tied to environmental economics, it would probably look more desirable.

	17-04-2004 12:51									#15
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As long as I get the WP, VW & the HGP in the early game I'm happy. Later on I get more greedy though. I have gotten all of the SPs on three occasions on Transcend level, but it usually requires a bit of luck.

	18-04-2004 04:00									#16
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HGP + VW + PTS + Uni + ICS = I win big time

I LOVE the PTS

-Jam

	18-04-2004 05:00									#17
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I rarely push for the early game SP's, instead favoring infrastructure and continual expansion. One SP I continually covet is the MCC (although I cannot say that this is considered an early game SP), as I enjoy and appreciate the opportunities it represents. Oh if it only gave the "Submarine" opportunity portrayed in the SP video....


D

	18-04-2004 07:43									#18
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I'm playing a Morgan thinker-level game (the highest level I've played yet) and have grabbed every single proect so far. I'm using ICS but have kept the entire city-space around my capital for its use. Nice.

	18-04-2004 14:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan One SP I continually covet is the MCC (although I cannot say that this is considered an early game SP), as I enjoy and appreciate the opportunities it represents.

Me too.

In the period before airpower, those extra movement points for ships are very nice.

It doesn't seem very popular with the AI, in my experience, so I don't usually have any problem getting it.

	18-04-2004 21:31									#20
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Since I play Angels, I always get the same four. No more, no less.

Planetary Datalinks--Mostly to deny the AI the project, since angels practically get this for free.

Hunter-Seeker Algorithm

Telepathic Matrix

Nethack Terminus

	18-04-2004 22:03									#21
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Playing Transcend, I get most of the early SP - usually I missed one, perhaps two, but I'm getting better at it. Planning an ICS-like game, all SPs are vital in one way or the other.
I can let go of Command Nexus. The ME has the problem that it costs something *now* and it becomes really useful only much later in the game (after restriction lifting) and building of an energy park).

	19-04-2004 02:29									#22
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In MP games , The WP or the PTS can be game breakers, depending on your faction and time.

	19-04-2004 10:21									#23
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HGP/WP/PTS are my big goal SPs, usually in that order. I also make an effort to grab CN and PEG. I almost never prioritize ME, its benefits are mostly useful in the way late game, and I'm much more interested in dominating early. EG is one I like to have, but my research path usually doesn't take me near.

	19-04-2004 22:23									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus The ME has the problem that it costs something *now* and it becomes really useful only much later in the game (after restriction lifting) and building of an energy park).

That is basically the way I see the ME...an investment. When you build it is not worth the minerals, but waiting for it to become worthwhile before building it is not an option. Although I admit, on Transend, I usually don't get it in favor of other SPs.